Help! The furture of the XLR

[DOUG ASHBY]

I hate to be a giant wet blanket, but I just had some very disturbing thoughts about our XLRs,and was hoping for some input from others who may have answers about my worries. Insurance agency owners? Insurance agents? Attorneys? Anyone? Please let me have your thoughts about this:
I am worried about the continued viability of not just my XLR, but ALL XLRs as usable cars.Let me lay out two scenarios.

1) A headlight on your XLR simply goes out. You cannot find a replacement for it. That means it will not pass its next safety inspection. Therefore you cannot get it re-registered in your state for the next year. Therefore you cannot drive it, and you cannot sell it to anyone else. Therefore it is worthless.

2) You have a minor fender bender inwhich your left headlight is damaged. You take it for repairs. No replacement parts can be found. Therefore your insurance company is forced to ‘total’your car. So, how many times do you think this will this happen before the XLR is put on an insurance industry-wide ‘black list’. Not insurable. Not drivable.Not worth anything.
I used the left headlight for an example because that seems to be the most critical component at the moment, but there are others that are joining the list that can render this car un-drivable.
I absolutely love my XLR. I’ve had a blast owning & driving it, and would love to continue. But if it’s going to become nothing but a pretty lawn ornament, I simply cannot afford that kind of loss. Should I get rid of it now while it still has some value? Can anyone give me any words of encouragement?

 

[JW7]

Future of the XLR

Hi Doug... I absolutely agree with your concerns ..and cannot understand the callousness of GM to just leave us all out there to die a slow death..if they have the molds..the patents, I cannot believe there cannot be some financial gain for them to be released, instead of having them sitting on a shelf collecting dust....this may be a naïve statement
Last week I spoke to the NHTSB who could not help...they gave me the phone number of legal council of SEMA in Washington,D.C...They do a few things including governing after market parts and stepping in when manufacturer does not honor warrantees....I was told by them that there are no regulations as to length of time a manufacturer has to maintain parts after warrantee is up..
However, she did feel that the LIGHT issue that we all seem to face eventually may fall under a safety regulation so she passed my number over to another organization in Washington that oversees that ...
As of now, have not heard..
I am even contemplating contacting car magazines to see if there is a story here ..perhaps a story that can make a difference for us..
I have never been a car guy until I purchased this one...this car is almost like Christina to me..it's taken over......The quirkiness..the expense..the uncertainty all does not matter in the end..I am Speaking for myself, but I believe that most members here feel just about the same..

 

[nerkpowers]

I am considering insuring my car with Hagerty's. They specialize in classic car insurance. You insure it for a specified amount, if there is a loss and the car is totaled, you get paid that amount. Since they deal with classic cars with hard to find parts, their adjusters are more likely to be able to locate parts or at least understand that parts on rare cars are hard to locate. They won't total a car for a broken headlight. You may want to talk to your existing insurance agent , even the big insurers will write a policy for a fixed amount. The blue book prices are based on cars that are reselling and our 10 and 12 year old cars are taking a hit on that. Having a fixed policy means that you at least get most of the investment you put in, which is becoming more and more as these cars age. If your car is a daily driver, you may have to stick with the big companies.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[onalaska]

I don't think getting liability insurance coverage for the XLR will ever be a problem so insuring and driving it will not be a problem as long as you can accept only having minimal liability coverage. If you are involved in an accident and it's the other persons fault their insurance company will be responsible for the repairs and if parts are no longer available to make it legal to drive on the road they may total it. In that case you probably will not have an option but to accept a settlement.

If you XLR is your daily driver you may want to think about replacing it with something that is easier to insure and repair. And if you consider it an investment you might also want to consider selling it while you can still get some value for it as a driveable car.

I also have a 1990 Cadillac Allante' which Cadillac has not supported for years. They were built from 1987 through 1993. It was involved in an accident a few years ago and the other driver's insurance company was able to locate used parts (with my help) to repair it, that was the only option, so I accepted their settlement and had it repaired. At some point the Allante' became worth more in parts than it was as a complete driveable car. I think the XLR may follow this same direction so it will always have some value, if only for parts. If that doesn't work for you then again you might want to consider replacing it with something else while you still can.

 

[DOUG ASHBY]

THE MAGAZINE ROUTE SOUNDS GOOD

Hi Doug... I absolutely agree with your concerns ..and cannot understand the callousness of GM to just leave us all out there to die a slow death..if they have the molds..the patents, I cannot believe there cannot be some financial gain for them to be released, instead of having them sitting on a shelf collecting dust....this may be a naïve statement
Last week I spoke to the NHTSB who could not help...they gave me the phone number of legal council of SEMA in Washington,D.C...They do a few things including governing after market parts and stepping in when manufacturer does not honor warrantees....I was told by them that there are no regulations as to length of time a manufacturer has to maintain parts after warrantee is up..
However, she did feel that the LIGHT issue that we all seem to face eventually may fall under a safety regulation so she passed my number over to another organization in Washington that oversees that ...
As of now, have not heard..
I am even contemplating contacting car magazines to see if there is a story here ..perhaps a story that can make a difference for us..
I have never been a car guy until I purchased this one...this car is almost like Christina to me..it's taken over......The quirkiness..the expense..the uncertainty all does not matter in the end..I am Speaking for myself, but I believe that most members here feel just about the same..

Thanks, JW7, for your reply. I think your idea about getting one of the car mags interested has merit. I can see 'Car & Driver' featuring a story about how GM & Cadillac seemingly don't give a damn about a bunch of people who spent a LOT of money on what they billed as a 'halo' car. This certainly serves as a cautionary tale to anyone contemplating buying a Caddy in the future. Are you SURE, Mr. Customer, that you feel comfortable about buying that CT6 when you may not be able to even get basic maintenance parts for it in ten years??? A bright spotlight on GM just might get the cockroaches to scurry around a bit.

 

[ccclarke]

Your points are all valid -- parts-wise. But there's another part of owning a car that you can't place monetary value on.

As any vehicle ages, parts naturally fail. The risk factor increase exponentially with a low-volume product. As soon as logistic support dries up, you're pretty much on your own. If one is real lucky, a support group of like-minded folks bands together to help each other out. You definitely have that going for you here.

A guy in Oregon who rebuilds the folding top hydraulic pump and supplies better-than-stock replacement lines. Questions and answers from knowledgeable people who have had the same problems. There's a wealth of resources here to keep your XLR road-worthy. Okay, so you can't have brand-new headlights. A working used one will eventually appear on eBay or through a national salvage yard search. Maybe a member has a line on something someone needs.

It really comes down to how much you want to deal with owning a really special car that needs a little extra attention on the road. Is the XLR an ideal daily driver for someone with only one car? Probably not, but you could end up being one of the lucky ones who rarely has a major issue. The engine is pretty darn stout.

Life is a crap shoot. Anything might (and can) happen, so it's best to concentrate on the things you have some measure of control over. If headlight availability is keeping you from enjoying your car, buy a replacement part when it becomes available. I've waited months for the right item to appear on eBay, but eventually it does and your patience is rewarded. (And I mean weird, off-the-wall stuff too.)

Remember when you first brought your XLR home and lingered a little longer than usual when turning off the garage light before going into the house? (I did until the day we parted.) Maybe you still do too. If so, then think about how to maintain that feeling if it's important to you. If you have second doubts, or just want to not deal with the extra work involved, by all means, let go and use the experience to guide you on your next car love affair. I don't know of a single owner here who isn't a die-hard car person. We all gravitate towards cars that make us smile when we sit in them and savor even the quick last-minute runs to get toothpicks at the store. We find excuses to get on the road and enjoy what our cars offer -that's what car people do, and it separates us from people who drive from point A to B. A car is a means to an end for them, like a refrigerator is to me. Cleaning and polishing isn't a chore, it's a process that makes us smile at a job well-done. Obsessive? Check!

If your car gives you worries that decrease your enjoyment of it, that's an ideal prompt to start shopping for the next one to obsess over. As these cars age, they start to accumulate stories, some good, and some not so. They're amply documented here.

In the end, only you can determine what your level of commitment is, and whatever decision you make, I hope you are pleased with the result.

CC

 

[JW7]

The future of the XLR

CCClarke says it better than I have ever seen written before...excellent...Thank you

 

[SJP]

Well said Ccclarke

 

[Crimson Pearl]

I went downstairs to the garage to ask my 2005 XLR what she thought about future parts availability.

She said "let me discuss this with my garage mates, the 1976 Chevrolet El Camino and 1966 Pontiac GTO".

She then said "I'll get back to you about this".

 

[ccclarke]

You sir, qualify as a quintessential car enthusiast! I look forward to your posts in years to come.

CC

 

[DOUG ASHBY]

Excellent points

Your observations are the best and most thoughtful, on any subject I've ever commented on on the internet (and I make a lot). I really appreciate your taking the time to do it. You've given me a lot to think about.

"Remember when you first brought your XLR home and lingered a little longer than usual when turning off the garage light before going into the house?"
Hell, EVERY single time I walk thru the garage on my way to the daily driver I think to myself, "DAMN!! I LOVE THAT CAR!!" So my love affair has certainly not cooled. I just worry that, like lovers down thru the ages, we may be torn apart by circumstances beyond our control.

 

[pure zen]

Best post of 2016,,,,,,,,,

Damn CC, you hit the nail directly on the head. Excellent post

I could have posted a similar writing, being a auto enthusiast, but not nearly as well as you did .....

Glad you read this website

 

[Z1.]

Giving The Middle Finger to GM

I am friends with Todd Chezum of Forecast 3D, which specializes in making automotive parts including headlights using commercial 3D printers (high temp polycarbonates for the headlights). But before Todd can make the headlights, 3D scans have to be made for which I have another friend, Martin Horton, of Blue Point Scan who specializes in that. The big problem that is stopping me with this project is that a pair of headlights have to be destroyed for the scans (the headlights sliced open and inner scans performed). Once the 3D scan files of the headlights are perfected and viable; BMW LED projectors, LED rings, etc. can be added and other desired modifications can be made. If anyone has a pair in fair condition (cracks, burned sections or crazing do not matter in the scan)..........I would be willing to give you a free pair of brand new headlights.....

 

[DOUG ASHBY]

Do you need two?

I am friends with Todd Chezum of Forecast 3D, which specializes in making automotive parts including headlights using commercial 3D printers (high temp polycarbonates for the headlights). But before Todd can make the headlights, 3D scans have to be made for which I have another friend, Martin Horton, of Blue Point Scan who specializes in that. The big problem that is stopping me with this project is that a pair of headlights have to be destroyed for the scans (the headlights sliced open and inner scans performed). Once the 3D scan files of the headlights are perfected and viable; BMW LED projectors, LED rings, etc. can be added and other desired modifications can be made. If anyone has a pair in fair condition (cracks, burned sections or crazing do not matter in the scan)..........I would be willing to give you a free pair of brand new headlights.....

Are you sure they would need the pair. Once you have one headlight scanned and digitized, couldn't the image just be flipped 180 degrees?

 

[Z1.]

Yes, but...

Are you sure they would need the pair. Once you have one headlight scanned and digitized, couldn't the image just be flipped 180 degrees?

It's thousands of points recorded on a three dimensional xyz grid that digitally mirror the scanned object. Some of the less expensive CAD programs (like the one I happen to use) tend to really corrupt the data when doing any kind of geometric flips. You are right, if I stay out of it, but that would add a few thousand to the cost if the scanning company does the cleanup work.

 

[ccclarke]

A good CAD program (ProE, etc.) shouldn't have an issue mirroring a part.

As for the laser scanner, do you know what brand/model would be used? In my experience, most laser scanners struggle with organic and faceted reflective surfaces such as those found in the headlamp housing, which tend to disperse and reflect the beam away from the receiver.

If this is an issue, the exterior bezel needs to be removed and the chromed surface is spray-painted flat black.

CC

 

[xlrlist01]

Are you sure they would need the pair. Once you have one headlight scanned and digitized, couldn't the image just be flipped 180 degrees?

Are the left/right headlight assemblies a mirror pair? Optically they might not be, given driving on the right, lighting to match?

 

[Z1.]

A good CAD program (ProE, etc.) shouldn't have an issue mirroring a part.
Multi-thousand dollar programs do wondrous things. I try to keep costs down and quality up (if only GM followed that principle).

As for the laser scanner, do you know what brand/model would be used?
No, I don't, but they do good work or they would be out of business. I'm not going to be there if and when they scan the headlights and I don't care how they do it. All I care about is I get some decent files to work with.

In my experience, most laser scanners struggle with organic and faceted reflective surfaces such as those found in the headlamp housing, which tend to disperse and reflect the beam away from the receiver.
Yup, it's a not easy. The company may not even light scan it, but rather MRI it (yes, the same type of MRI scanning used in hospitals but much cheaper).

If this is an issue, the exterior bezel needs to be removed and the chromed surface is spray-painted flat black.
It's moot if I can't get a hold of a pair (not balls, but headlights).

 

[Z1.]

A Good Point

Are the left/right headlight assemblies a mirror pair? Optically they might not be, given driving on the right, lighting to match?

This is a really good point and something to consider. Also the brackets holding the lights in place, the light adjustment guides, the connections to the motors that turn the lights could also be unique. I just get a headache thinking about it.

 

[airmike]

A good CAD program (ProE, etc.) shouldn't have an issue mirroring a part.
Multi-thousand dollar programs do wondrous things. I try to keep costs down and quality up (if only GM followed that principle).

As for the laser scanner, do you know what brand/model would be used?
No, I don't, but they do good work or they would be out of business. I'm not going to be there if and when they scan the headlights and I don't care how they do it. All I care about is I get some decent files to work with.

In my experience, most laser scanners struggle with organic and faceted reflective surfaces such as those found in the headlamp housing, which tend to disperse and reflect the beam away from the receiver.
Yup, it's a not easy. The company may not even light scan it, but rather MRI it (yes, the same type of MRI scanning used in hospitals but much cheaper).

If this is an issue, the exterior bezel needs to be removed and the chromed surface is spray-painted flat black.
It's moot if I can't get a hold of a pair (not balls, but headlights).

I'm thinking it would be very hard to get someone to give up a pair of headlights, when the outcome is not assured? I don't doubt your statement that they wouldn't still be in business if they weren't good at their business. However, any time someone strays into a new outcome, mistakes happen and there is a learning curve. Has this company made some headlights so as to feel the outcome is highly likely? At this point it seems like you are asking for an irreplaceable part, with not high enough assurance of success. If I still had my car, I wouldn't be willing to take that risk. Even if I had a spare set, the risk seems too high.