Cadillac XLR Net - The ultimate online hub for Cadillac XLR owners and enthusiasts!
Supporting Membership - Supporting Vendors / Dealers - Advertise With Us

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default 2004 XLR FOLDING TOP POSITION SENSOR KNOWN GOOD "COUNTS" - TROUBLESHOOTING

    Hey guys! im looking for some help troubleshooting a non working folding top on a 2004 cadillac xlr. can anyone provide known good counts for the position sensors when the top is fully closed or extended? Thanks for your help!

  2. #2
    Pit Crew
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uncanny Valley, New England
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2013 Graphite Metallic XTS Platinum

    Default

    Front Tonneau: CLOSED- 94 (Ref: 98) OPEN- 150 (Ref: 152)
    Folding Top: CLOSED- 202 (Ref: 200) OPEN- 35 (Ref: 38)
    Rear Tonneau: CLOSED- 109 (Ref: 114) OPEN- 190 (Ref: 186)

    You should be able to view the reference counts stored in the FTC. The actual counts should be very close to that. After a Re-learn if they aren't, the sensor is suspect.

    CC

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default

    Wow! i cant thank you enough. I've been going nuts trying to get this information. I checked alldata and mitchell and found nothing! would you happen to know any known good counts for the pump temp sensor?

  4. #4
    Pit Crew
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uncanny Valley, New England
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2013 Graphite Metallic XTS Platinum

    Default

    The position sensors can output counts from 0-255; the Reference Counts are the stored values when compared against the reported actual counts. All other sensors output a Status.

    Other Messages reported on the DIC when the Folding Top Control Switch is pressed:

    TOO COLD FOR TOP OPERATION
    TOP MOTOR OVERTEMP "

    Pump Motor Temp Sensor Status indicates the pump temp in C/F.
    Pump Over Temperature Sensor Status indicates Overtemp/Normal.

    For the Thermistor: As the motor warms up, the thermistor resistance decreases. The change in the 5vdc reference signal is monitored and the voltage drop is used to calculate the motor temp. (No counts displayed.) You need to monitor the motor temp with the Tech 2. If it doesn't change, the thermistor is suspect. Obviously a Class 2 message indicating TOP MOTOR OVERTEMP when the Folding Top Control Switch is pressed would point to the pump/thermistor being faulty if the pump has not been excessively run. DTC B3670 can be displayed if the temp is over the normal operating range (95C/203F).

    You can subscribe to this site for $10 a day and download all the GM Service manual procedures you want:
    RepairProcedures.com - Providing electronic service information for 1995 to current GM vehicles

    It's been over four years since your first post regarding a non-working top. Has it ever worked?

    Happy Hunting,

    CC
    Last edited by ccclarke; 07-06-2017 at 05:22 AM.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default

    It has never worked since I bought the car. It was wrecked when i bought it, so it spent some time in the body shop. I took it to my local dealership and they didn't want to mess with it unless i gave them a significant amount up front. I took it to a local automotive electrical shop. The guy is a Master certified L1 advanced level specialist tech with experience working on mercedes tops that are similar to the xlr. He just needed some known good numbers to work with. ive seen this guy diagnose and fix complicated stuff in the past so my hopes are that he can figure it out. I will update you when its fixed. thanks again!

  6. #6
    Pit Crew
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uncanny Valley, New England
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2013 Graphite Metallic XTS Platinum

    Default

    If you need the pump repaired or upgrades to the folding top hydraulics: Cadillac XLR - Top Hydraulics, Inc

    CC

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default Top too cold to move ??

    After calibrating the top ..the dash displayed top too cold to move. Going to the pump removing everthing i found this gray and tan/white wires joined...??? Then on the connector someone cut them...is this how is meant to be or some prev owner was trying to bypass something
    PHP Code:
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]7115[/ATTACH
    2004 XLR FOLDING TOP POSITION SENSOR KNOWN GOOD "COUNTS" - TROUBLESHOOTING-20170711_155932-jpg

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default

    2004 XLR FOLDING TOP POSITION SENSOR KNOWN GOOD "COUNTS" - TROUBLESHOOTING-20170711_160217-jpg

  9. #9
    Pit Crew
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uncanny Valley, New England
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2013 Graphite Metallic XTS Platinum

    Default

    The grey and tan wires are the pump thermistor outputs. Someone tried to bypass the thermistor by tying them together outside the pump. I see two splices on the line with what looks like a smaller gauge wire between them. Can't tell if there's a really low-wattage resistor in there under the heat shrink.

    Unfortunately, the wires are cut flush with the connector body, so a proper repair would need new pins crimped and installed. Your dealer will have these along with the right crimp tool.

    It looks like there's another pair of splices below it, covered with green electrical tape and heat shrink which isn't flush with the insulation- which always makes me suspicious. I would take them apart and perform an inspection.

    Wire and harness repair is very easy (if you know how) and just as easy to screw up (if you don't know how.)

    CC
    Last edited by ccclarke; 07-11-2017 at 07:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default Bad thermistor??

    After connecting the wires back and making it pretty it still marks too cold to move, maybe the thermistor is bad on this remanufacture pump that i purchase ,
    Would adding a resistor work and bypass it .it didn't had a resistor before on d pictures. Or can it be fix or it requires a new pump

  11. #11
    Pit Crew
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uncanny Valley, New England
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2013 Graphite Metallic XTS Platinum

    Default

    Installing a resistor bypasses the protection the thermistor is designed to give, and I wouldn't recommend it. That would be in the same league as bypassing a fuse with a piece of wire. The short answer is, Don't.

    If the pumps weren't susceptible to damage, the thermistors wouldn't have been included in the design, and remember - every designed component was selected from the lowest bidder that could meet the specs set forth by GM or CTS -who designed this top.

    The thermistor in the pump is a NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient) type. It puts out less resistance as the temp increases. There's a little math involved to determine the right part to source, so I'll need some time to look into it. I have an old pump in the garage I might be able to take some measurements on if I can connect a power supply to the thermistor and characterize it. If I get a few hours tomorrow, I'll gather the data and let you know what I come up with.

    You earlier mentioned the top was re-calibrated. Did it run then?

    CC

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2004 xlr

    Default

    No it did not work since i got that code too cold to move but the pump runs the only thing i can move with the scanner is the rear tonneau and i can communicate with it and i get signal.

    I did notice all electrical schematics refers to that thermistor wire as a gray and tan wire...however ..the wire its tan/wth???i wonder if thats an engineering typo ??

    Anyways i didnt knew RadioShack is out of business so i have to order some resistors online :/

    Also that gray wire that inputs or outputs 5v it divides to other 3 components so im thinking if i put a resistor it will affect the other 3..???

  13. #13
    Pit Crew
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uncanny Valley, New England
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cadillac XLR

    2013 Graphite Metallic XTS Platinum

    Default

    If you're planning to install a resistor in place of the thermistor (these are very different components) I don't recommend it.

    (First Rule of repairs: DO NO HARM.)

    I have disassembled the pump from the manifold, and removed the impeller housing, isolating the pump motor. I started writing a disassembly procedure along with editing the seventy pictures I took for inclusion. I'm still checking out the way the pump body is attached to the motor shaft (could be crimped in the middle) to try to open it up without destructively cutting the casing. There's a circuit board at the rear of the motor where the thermistor lives along with some other components. DC motor operation is pretty straightforward, but I need to figure out what components are inside, so if I have to cut it apart to do that, and verify how the assembly is sealed, I will. The long-term goal is to create a schematic, and build a 3D model to create a drawing of the seals, O-rings, bearing race, etc. for anyone who wants to rebuild their assembly at some point.

    As for the wire color, mine are grey and tan as well.

    When you measure the resistance across the thermistor, what are you getting?

    CC
    Last edited by ccclarke; 07-16-2017 at 08:06 AM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Cadillac, XLR and XLR-V are registered trademark of the General Motors Corporation & Cadillac Motor Division.  Neither Cadillac Motor Division nor any subsidiaries of GM© shall bear any responsibility for XLR-Net.com content, comments, or advertising. XLR-Net.com is independent from GM© and is not affiliated with, sponsored or supported by GM©.  Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended, or implied.  All Rights Reserved