Retractable top will not open

[al williams]

Hello to all... am new to the forum... just trying to find out why my top will not open.It was working fine perviously but some how just stop. Ok here is what it is doing... the truck will open, the lid behind the seats will open, next the top should open but will not ( the fluid is full to max ). Also i can see a slight movement in the top ( also took the small round plug out in the top to make sure that the lachets was release ). Can anyone PLEASE tell me what is going on with the top ???

 

[Phrede]

Hello to all... am new to the forum... just trying to find out why my top will not open.It was working fine perviously but some how just stop. Ok here is what it is doing... the truck will open, the lid behind the seats will open, next the top should open but will not ( the fluid is full to max ). Also i can see a slight movement in the top ( also took the small round plug out in the top to make sure that the lachets was release ). Can anyone PLEASE tell me what is going on with the top ???

It could be many different things. The windows going down? Trunk divider in place? Anything on the display (like about the divider in the trunk)? Have you tried manually releasing the latches or is it obvious they are released? Can you push up on the roof at this point?

 

[al williams]

The windows go down, the truck open, the cover( behind the seats) open... all but the top will not open!!! The top slightly move like it is binding but will not open.I have not tried to manually open the top.According to the manual you have to turn the pump valve.. along with taking the clips and pins out of both the top two hydraulic.I was wondering could the top "relay" that send the signals of the positions of each the truck, the cover ( behind the seats ) and the top be bad ? I hope someone can help me ?? Like i stated before it's been working just fine !!!

It could be many different things. The windows going down? Trunk divider in place? Anything on the display (like about the divider in the trunk)? Have you tried manually releasing the latches or is it obvious they are released? Can you push up on the roof at this point?

 

[Rob]

Welcome to the XLR Net Al!

 

[al williams]

"Thanks"

Thank you very much Rob for the welcome !!!

Welcome to the XLR Net Al!

 

[Fireduck]

I had the same problem last year, sorry to say that I can't be much help as I don't actually know what fixed it. The dealer spent 2 hours working on it and decided it was going to be either a pump or control module. I know they tried a relearn as the instructions we left in the car. I eventually bought a tech2 knockoff and cleared all the faults, it indicated that a couple of the sensors were not learned. I did a relearn and all works fine now. Many have indicated issues with the top position sensors so that's where I would start. Good luck.

Bob
Black 2007 V


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[al williams]

Retractable Top will not open

Thanks for the information Bob... i have order the retractable top relay ( i will start with that as you stated ) this from my understanding suppose to control the top along with sending the singals to the other three senors.

I had the same problem last year, sorry to say that I can't be much help as I don't actually know what fixed it. The dealer spent 2 hours working on it and decided it was going to be either a pump or control module. I know they tried a relearn as the instructions we left in the car. I eventually bought a tech2 knockoff and cleared all the faults, it indicated that a couple of the sensors were not learned. I did a relearn and all works fine now. Many have indicated issues with the top position sensors so that's where I would start. Good luck.

Bob
Black 2007 V


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[al williams]

Relearn

How did you do the relearn Bob ?

I had the same problem last year, sorry to say that I can't be much help as I don't actually know what fixed it. The dealer spent 2 hours working on it and decided it was going to be either a pump or control module. I know they tried a relearn as the instructions we left in the car. I eventually bought a tech2 knockoff and cleared all the faults, it indicated that a couple of the sensors were not learned. I did a relearn and all works fine now. Many have indicated issues with the top position sensors so that's where I would start. Good luck.

Bob
Black 2007 V


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Phrede]

Thanks for the information Bob... i have order the retractable top relay ( i will start with that as you stated ) this from my understanding suppose to control the top along with sending the singals to the other three senors.

Retractable top relay????

The top valve body is controlled by the trunk/top module. That is WAY more than a relay. A Tech2 is required to re-teach the positions into the system. A Tech2 is a diagnostic computer that plugs into the OBDII port that communicates with the system modules. If you replace components or sensors a Tech2 is a must.

 

[Phrede]

The windows go down, the truck open, the cover( behind the seats) open... all but the top will not open!!! The top slightly move like it is binding but will not open.I have not tried to manually open the top.According to the manual you have to turn the pump valve.. along with taking the clips and pins out of both the top two hydraulic.I was wondering could the top "relay" that send the signals of the positions of each the truck, the cover ( behind the seats ) and the top be bad ? I hope someone can help me ?? Like i stated before it's been working just fine !!!

The process to manually open and close the roof does require opening the relief valve on the pump, not hard to do. I don't know what you are referring to with "clips and pins". Hydraulic lines do not need to be removed.

If the top appears to be binding as it tries to lift off the windshield either the latches are not releasing or there is not enough force to lift the roof from either low hydraulic pressure or faulty cylinders.

If you lift up on the roof as it tries to open it will prove if the latches are releasing or if there is not enough force. Lifting the roof off the windshield takes the most force of any part of the process.

 

[V Happy]

-retractable-top-will-not-open.html

Al
i think if you are happy with the car and u plan on keeping it you need to own a tech 2 and a set of maintenance manuals. If u had a tech 2 u would hook it up and read ur trouble codes. That would tell u a lot about ur problem. The only way u can do a relearn is with a tech 2. Have u had any battery problems lately? Some times with a battery low or recently disconnected ur car may need a relearn. Check to see if ur windows are indexed to come down when opening ur doors.
V Happy

 

[Phrede]

I agree, if you are capable and plan on working on the car yourself a Tech2 and a set of manuals are a good investment.

Other than the three analog position sensors a common problem is corrosion at the two ground points in the rear, one each side. Cleaning and greasing these has been known to solve roof problems. Just to be clear, the roof system does not store trouble codes like some of the other modules. It does let you diagnose faults during the process. In this case it is not an issue, but many times roof problems are intermittent and there is nothing stored.

 

[al williams]

Retractable Top will not open

Al
i think if you are happy with the car and u plan on keeping it you need to own a tech 2 and a set of maintenance manuals. If u had a tech 2 u would hook it up and read ur trouble codes. That would tell u a lot about ur problem. The only way u can do a relearn is with a tech 2. Have u had any battery problems lately? Some times with a battery low or recently disconnected ur car may need a relearn. Check to see if ur windows are indexed to come down when opening ur doors.
V Happy

Thanks for the information V Happy... my windows do indexed down when i open the door, the battery is new ( two months old ACdelco ) . I have no problem in getting a Tech2 but is it complicated to use ? Last night i tried letting the top down manually... i even tried pushing up on the top but to no avail... when i let the top down from the switch... the two windows indexed down, next the trunk open up and the cover ( behind the seats ) the top look like it is trying to move ( but look like it may be binding, fluid full to max ). I know if the top would open up the deck cover would then operate next.

 

[Phrede]

Thanks for the information V Happy... my windows do indexed down when i open the door, the battery is new ( two months old ACdelco ) . I have no problem in getting a Tech2 but is it complicated to use ? Last night i tried letting the top down manually... i even tried pushing up on the top but to no avail... when i let the top down from the switch... the two windows indexed down, next the trunk open up and the cover ( behind the seats ) the top look like it is trying to move ( but look like it may be binding, fluid full to max ). I know if the top would open up the deck cover would then operate next.

Indexing the windows is not moving down a small amount as when the doors open. The windows must go fully down before the top will operate. Indexing the windows is a process to teach the full up and down positions of the windows and is done by holding the button for each window for 5 seconds AFTER the window has stopped moving. This needs to be done for both up and down and both sides or the top will not open or close.

Are you saying you could not move the roof by hand after opening the hydraulic relief valve and opening the front latches with a torx wrench?
Are there any messages on the info display?

 

[al williams]

retractable Top will not open

Indexing the windows is not moving down a small amount as when the doors open. The windows must go fully down before the top will operate. Indexing the windows is a process to teach the full up and down positions of the windows and is done by holding the button for each window for 5 seconds AFTER the window has stopped moving. This needs to be done for both up and down and both sides or the top will not open or close.

Are you saying you could not move the roof by hand after opening the hydraulic relief valve and opening the front latches with a torx wrench?
Are there any messages on the info display?

Thanks for the correction.. the windows do go all the way down...and yes i could not move the top after opening the hydrauilc relief vave and the front latches with the wrench. I also notice
that the latches are opening and closing ( when i use the car top switch ).

 

[Phrede]

Thanks for the correction.. the windows do go all the way down...and yes i could not move the top after opening the hydrauilc relief vave and the front latches with the wrench. I also notice
that the latches are opening and closing ( when i use the car top switch ).

It sounds to me like there must be a mechanical bind in the roof if the front tonneau is up and you know the front latches are released fully but still can not move the roof even a little by hand.
Maybe try pushing up at the rear of the roof where the hinges are (near the top of the rear window)?

I would also go ahead and try re-teaching the windows. Sometimes they need to be done for no apparent reason at all. The only way you know it needs to be done is the top will not go down. Some people do it twice up->down ->up->down holding the button for a 10 count after the window stops moving each time just to make sure. I don't remember where the top freezes at when it needs to be done for sure. I think it stops before the tonneau goes up, which means it is not your problem, but can't be sure. It doesn't hurt to try it.

 

[al williams]

retractable Top will not open

It sounds to me like there must be a mechanical bind in the roof if the front tonneau is up and you know the front latches are released fully but still can not move the roof even a little by hand.
Maybe try pushing up at the rear of the roof where the hinges are (near the top of the rear window)?

I would also go ahead and try re-teaching the windows. Sometimes they need to be done for no apparent reason at all. The only way you know it needs to be done is the top will not go down. Some people do it twice up->down ->up->down holding the button for a 10 count after the window stops moving each time just to make sure. I don't remember where the top freezes at when it needs to be done for sure. I think it stops before the tonneau goes up, which means it is not your problem, but can't be sure. It doesn't hurt to try it.

Windows working fine... when opening top ( re-teach windows again ) everything is opening... but the top... am getting a message TOP NOT SECURE ???

 

[Phrede]

Windows working fine... when opening top ( re-teach windows again ) everything is opening... but the top... am getting a message TOP NOT SECURE ???

You do understand that teaching the windows has nothing to do with the window operation? It is to make sure the windows are down before proceeding with the roof movement.

When do you get the message on the DIC? All the time or just when trying to move the roof?

Do you have a normal OBDII code reader? There are a few codes having to do with the latch switches and the top closed switch that could be helpful (ie. B1310) Clearing any of those type errors could be helpful.

 

[ccclarke]

This sounds a lot like a Front Tonneau or Roof Position sensor problem. A Tech 2 will confirm. A Re-learn with a Tech 2 might fix the problem if the sensors aren't loose or faulty.

One of the key concepts related to troubleshooting the Folding Top system is knowing the order of the opening and closing sequences. When a step fails, the problem is often associated with the failed step or in many cases, the previous step.

The first step in either sequence is the windows have to be lowered. Indexing the windows stores their raised and lowered positions. If they aren't indexed, the next step (raising the Rear Decklid) isn't going to ever happen since the Folding Top Control module can't verify the windows are in the lowered position. Raising the Rear Decklid via a dedicated switch (on the dash or locally on the Rear Decklid) will still work whether the windows are indexed or not. (This is another trick to isolating Folding Top-related issues.)

In this case, the Front Tonneau raised as commanded, but the Folding Top did not. If the Front Tonneau sensor is out of tolerance, the next step in the sequence (the top moving) is halted by the Folding Top Control module. The module will not initiate the next step in the sequence until the requirements for the previous step have been fulfilled. The control module raises the Front Tonneau to what it thinks is the Raised position, but because the received (actual) values from the position sensor don't compare to the stored values, the sequence stops.

It isn't enough that the Front Tonneau raises. Its received sensor values have to be within the band that was committed to memory when the last re-learn was completed. A Re-learn is nothing more than a nominal Folding Top opening and closing sequence in which the sensor values are measured, written, & stored in memory within the Folding Top Control module.

This isn't the only condition that will stop the sequence at this point, but it's the most common.

Mod: Can this thread be moved to the Technical Discussion section please?

CC

 

[al williams]

retractable Top will not open

This sounds a lot like a Front Tonneau or Roof Position sensor problem. A Tech 2 will confirm. A Re-learn with a Tech 2 might fix the problem if the sensors aren't loose or faulty.

One of the key concepts related to troubleshooting the Folding Top system is knowing the order of the opening and closing sequences. When a step fails, the problem is often associated with the failed step or in many cases, the previous step.

The first step in either sequence is the windows have to be lowered. Indexing the windows stores their raised and lowered positions. If they aren't indexed, the next step (raising the Rear Decklid) isn't going to ever happen since the Folding Top Control module can't verify the windows are in the lowered position. Raising the Rear Decklid via a dedicated switch (on the dash or locally on the Rear Decklid) will still work whether the windows are indexed or not. (This is another trick to isolating Folding Top-related issues.)

In this case, the Front Tonneau raised as commanded, but the Folding Top did not. If the Front Tonneau sensor is out of tolerance, the next step in the sequence (the top moving) is halted by the Folding Top Control module. The module will not initiate the next step in the sequence until the requirements for the previous step have been fulfilled. The control module raises the Front Tonneau to what it thinks is the Raised position, but because the received (actual) values from the position sensor don't compare to the stored values, the sequence stops.

It isn't enough that the Front Tonneau raises. Its received sensor values have to be within the band that was committed to memory when the last re-learn was completed. A Re-learn is nothing more than a nominal Folding Top opening and closing sequence in which the sensor values are measured, written, & stored in memory within the Folding Top Control module.

This isn't the only condition that will stop the sequence at this point, but it's the most common.

Mod: Can this thread be moved to the Technical Discussion section please?

CC

Thanks for all the informations CC am new to the forum...but before i was a member i have readed a lot of threads that was very helpful to me... example my rear axle was making a clicking noise...so the information on the thread was to change the rear axle gear oil ( GM dexron ls 75w90 ) and i did so i have no more noise.I have also notice that you are very
knowledgeable on the XLR.The "top"...when i am opening it.... both windows go down,the cover open ( behind the seats ) and the trunck open..the top you can see it is trying to move ( but slightly... like it is binding... the front latches are open ) then i get a message stating that "TOP NOT SECURE" !!!