Important! Brakes gone wild!!

[steve05]

Well gang the old gal upped and surprised me this morning. I stopped to fill up and made a right turn out of the station, accelerated and then the brakes went wild all by them selves .. freaked me out!! Called GM to report but no help just a sorry you are having this problem.. as an mechanical engineer for 30 years I consider this a design flaw!! not from wear or time. if the proper failure mode effects analysis was performed this cannot happen... this is definitely a design flaw and a safety issue. the service stabilatrack light came on as well as the traction control light.. however I shutdown and regained my composure and restarted the car.. no lights and the system seems to work fine.. but the thought of this happening at speed will be a concern as long as I own the car...
As much as I love this car I think it a goner a an new vette in my near future.. to bad this was the the most awesome car ever but I don't want to die in it or hurt some one else.. Just a heads up!!!

 

[Popbigguy]

Define: "brakes went wild". What do you mean?

 

[steve05]

Define: "brakes went wild". What do you mean?

Well the brakes decided to activate with no input from the driver! if you need more specifics then the brakes energized pulled to the right then released and then re-energized and pulled to the right and then then all four tires squealed for a second and then released and thats when I forced the car off the road and shut down

 

[pure zen]

Yikes,,,, Thank you for posting your experience....

Steve,

Before you unload the car for a new Vette, take a few minutes to file a report with the NHTSA. If this does, or has, happened to others,,,,they will look into it and decide if a recall is needed to prevent this from happening to other owners. Sounds frightening, and it is a 'safety concern' to all of us. GM's track record of admitting safety defects isn't very comforting.

.
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Motor Vehicle Safety Defects and Recalls Campaigns | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
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Home | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

 

[XLRATING]

a new vette in my near future..

Not sure you want a C7 then - unfortunately I ran across a post of the same thing happening with one of them on a Corvette forum. Driver felt the same way as you do.

 

[ccclarke]

Intermittent StabiliTRAC engagement is a known problem with a TSB to perform corrective action (installation of a keeper to prevent fretting) on a connector at the base of the steering wheel. Other causes can be a bad Steering Wheel Position Sensor, (part of the signal path of the connector I mentioned) or a bad Yaw Sensor behind the infotainment unit.

The most common cause I've seen for this, (across all Cadillac models equipped with this feature) are faulty wheel speed sensors, located within the hubs. This makes sense, since there are four of them to go bad.

When any of the input signals don't jive, and it appears the car is going into a skid and the steering wheel position doesn't match up with the expected rotation, the Electronic Braking System tries to right the car's path by applying the brakes on the opposite side it believes the car is yawing (rotating) in relation to.

No need to dump the car, just fix the problem. Have a dealership scan the car, and perform the TSB.

In the meantime, until you get the issue resolved, keep your upholstery stain-free by disabling StabiliTRAC: Press and hold the Traction Control switch until it chimes two times each time you start the ignition. A message will appear on your DIC indicating both are disabled.

I've experienced this and it's white-knuckle scary. After it happened a couple of times, my wife was ready to have me fitted for Depends undergarments.

If you think unintended StabiliTRAC engagement is bad, (and it is) wait until the inevitable reports of the new automatic front and rear automatic braking systems engaging, (currently being installed on the latest models) trickle in -assuming the drivers live to tell the tale. In the rain. At night. . .

These safety braking systems are great when they work, (and 99.99% of the time they do) but if the Fickle Finger of Fate points in your general direction and you're cast in the .01% of its shadow. . . . Hello, PTDSS (Post-traumatic Driving Stress Syndrome) therapy.

CC

 

[buki]

As always your responses are clear, concise and very helpful CC.

But this one qualifies you for another major award...great writer!

Adding those final five words...'in the rain. At night.' shows cinematic prowess far above average.

 

[pure zen]

Thanks for the info, CC

I've experienced this and it's white-knuckle scary. After it happened a couple of times, my wife was ready to have me fitted for Depends undergarments.


I feel better now knowing CC has sh!t his pants in his XLR.........but don't look forward to this situation ever happening. Also, thanks for the temporary adjustment with disabling StabiliTRAC . Good to know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From the XLR info......good stuff thread:

,,,,This variable-effort steering system affords drivers unparalleled control on the highway ,,,,,

https://www.xlr-net.com/forums/cadi...ml?highlight=ONSTAR+FUSE#sthash.xvTwSGdB.dpuf

 

[MarkSki]

In the meantime, until you get the issue resolved, keep your upholstery stain-free by disabling StabiliTRAC: Press and hold the Traction Control switch until it chimes two times each time you start the ignition. A message will appear on your DIC indicating both are disabled.

CC

Can you turn both back on without shutting the engine off or does it reset to both on after you shut down then restart?

 

[ccclarke]

Can you turn both back on without shutting the engine off or does it reset to both on after you shut down then restart?

Yes. Twice.

 

[Crimson Pearl]

Audi problems

Audi is having problems with their collision avoidance system and has issued a recall.

Here it is : 2014-2015 Acura MDX, RLX Recalled For Faulty Collision Avoidance Systems

 

[05 GRAND DADDY]

Well gang the old gal upped and surprised me this morning. I stopped to fill up and made a right turn out of the station, accelerated and then the brakes went wild all by them selves .. freaked me out!! Called GM to report but no help just a sorry you are having this problem.. as an mechanical engineer for 30 years I consider this a design flaw!! not from wear or time. if the proper failure mode effects analysis was performed this cannot happen... this is definitely a design flaw and a safety issue. the service stabilatrack light came on as well as the traction control light.. however I shutdown and regained my composure and restarted the car.. no lights and the system seems to work fine.. but the thought of this happening at speed will be a concern as long as I own the car...
As much as I love this car I think it a goner a an new vette in my near future.. to bad this was the the most awesome car ever but I don't want to die in it or hurt some one else.. Just a heads up!!!

Steve05
Thanks for posting this as I have an 05 I purchased in 2011 with 53K on her , she now has 88K and never heard of this. And a big thanks to CCClark for the info of turning off the Stabilizer Trac Button! Sure sounds like a soiled pants situation that for sure! Another reason for loving this forum

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Hi All,
This exact same thing happened to me a few days ago.
ALL of the brakes locked up. Lost control of steering. Stabilitrak failure and other warnings in DIC. Luckily I was only going 5mph and no cars around me.

Here's the solution:
Service Stabilitrak TSB #06-02-35-002B
Install the clip (1), P/N 19179794, into the SWPS connector.

My dealer only charged $23 for parts and labor.
ALL XLRS should have this done....it's a serious safety risk. INSANE that GM isn't doing a mandatory recall. Some Corvette C6 drivers have crashed due to this.

FYI: SAHS still an issue. [Archive] - Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums

Subject: TSB 06.02.35.002B / Service Active Handling System

However you find of its relevance to your circumstance – model and/or year, it certainly would be prudent nevertheless to look into this GM recall. If ignored it can prove to be costly; see Post 3 of "Z06 crash" thread for possible effects.

Keynote: "…kicked to the left and then to the right and immediately off road."


Report Date: May 6, 2010 at 10:15 PM
NHTSA Campaign ID number: 10V172000

Vehicle Make / Model: CHEVROLET / CORVETTE Model Year(s): 2005-2006
Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP. Mfr's Report Date: APR 26, 2010
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 10V172000 NHTSA Action Number: EA09002


Component: STEERING: COLUMN Potential Number of Units Affected: 40028

Summary:
GM IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2005 AND 2006 CHEVROLET CORVETTE PASSENGER CARS MANUFACTURED BETWEEN MARCH 2004 AND JANUARY 2006 EQUIPPED WITH A TILT AND TELESCOPING STEERING COLUMN (RPO N37). IN RARE CASES, REPEATED MOVEMENT OF THE STEERING COLUMN MAY CAUSE A SIGNAL INTERRUPTION WITHIN THE COLUMN. IF THIS OCCURS, THE MESSAGE, "SERVICE ACTIVE HANDLING SYSTEM" WILL APPEAR IN THE DRIVER INFORMATION CENTER, AND ONE OR MORE OF THE BRAKES MAY APPLY, POSSIBLY CAUSING THE VEHICLE TO PULL TO THE RIGHT OR LEFT.

Consequence:
IF THE DRIVER DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE CHANGE IN VEHICLE MOVEMENT, A CRASH COULD OCCUR.

Remedy:
GM WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND DEALERS WILL REPAIR THE VEHICLES FREE OF CHARGE. THE SAFETY RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR ABOUT APRIL 30, 2010. OWNERS MAY CONTACT CHEVROLET AT 1-800-630-2438 AND GMC AT 1-866-996-9463 OR AT THE OWNER CENTER AT WWW.GMOWNERCENTER.COM.

Notes:
GM'S RECALL CAMPAIGN NUMBER IS N100118. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.


Reference website: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm


ADDENDUM:

If your DIC displays a "Service Active Handling" message it is normally a quick fix, unless it is the sensor. It’s an issue as noted in the TSB following that can be easily fixed by either a dealer, or a procedure that any owner can perform – see link below.

Typically the "connector" of the wiring harness on your "telescoping" steering column becomes stressed from movement – quite possibly being too short – and results in a partial disconnect momentarily triggering the SAH message. When this happens a condition called "fretting" can occur. This fretting is basically a charring of the connector pins due to carbon buildup from arcing. This consequently can change the resistance of the connector sending a false signal to the steering position sensor and subsequently the car’s control system. This in turn causes the system to interpret your action as doing something that you ought not be and will try to correct by applying opposite braking to correct. When this occurs the system can lock-up a wheel and prove to be very dangerous at high speed(s).

Failure to make the repair can result with the arcing within the connector developing into a charred and/or fretted condition as mentioned and requiring a wiring harness replacement.

The original fix was a wire tie and then revised to incorporating a locking connector adapter (clip) that takes less than 10 minutes to install and firmly secures the connection from separation. However, a second cause can be the actual steering wheel positioning sensor, current thought(s) appear to suggest that the sensor in some cases may be possibly at fault as well.


TSB #06-02-35-002B: Stabilitrak/Active Handling Light On, Service Stabilitrak/Active Handling Message on DIC, DTC C0710 Steering Wheel Position Sensor (SWPS) Signal Set (Install Clip in SWPS Connector) - (Oct 19, 2007)

Subject: Stabilitrak/Active Handling Light On, Service Stabilitrak/Active Handling Message on DIC, DTC C0710 Steering Wheel Position Sensor (SWPS) Signal Set (Install Clip in SWPS Connector)

Models: 2008 Buick Lucerne

2004-2008 Cadillac XLR

2006-2008 Cadillac DTS

2005-2008 Chevrolet Corvette

with Steering Wheel - Tilt, Telescoping (RPO N37 or N38)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This bulletin is being revised to update the models and provide new correction information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 06-02-35-002A (Section 02 -- Steering).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment on a Stabilitrak® or Active Handling System light being illuminated. Also, this warning light will be accompanied by a SERVICE STABILITRAK or SERVICE ACTIVE HNDLG message on the DIC.

Diagnosis with a scan tool may reveal a DTC C0710.

Cause
The most likely cause of a DTC C0710 on a vehicle equipped with telescoping/tilt steering wheel is high resistance in SWPS connector C202. Fretting terminal corrosion may be present in the SWPS connector due to the telescoping motion of the steering column. When the steering column is telescoped in and out, the female terminals within the SWPS connector may move on the male terminals of the SWPS. This movement between the terminals may cause a high resistance condition in the SWPS connector.

Correction
Remove the driver's side closeout (insulator) panel.
Locate the SWPS connector that connects to the steering angle sensor, located on the lower center of the steering column.

Install the clip (1), P/N 19179794, into the connector. This clip will act as a terminal positive assurance (TPA) and prevent any movement of the terminals.
Reinstall the closeout panel.
Clear the DTC with a scan tool and road test the vehicle.
If DTC C0710 resets during the road test, refer to DTC C0710 in SI.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

19179794
Clip, Steering Angle
1

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

E9464*
Install Clip into Steering Wheel Position Sensor (SWPS) Connector
0.3 hr

========================================

 

[ccclarke]

Here's the official TSB. It doesn't address the fact that StabliTRAC may engage and throw the vehicle into oncoming traffic though.

Gee, a little info like that might motivate owners to seriously look into this . . .

CC

 

[05 GRAND DADDY]

Here's the official TSB.

CC

Thx CC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"

 

[rldavid71]

Update on Stabilitrak

The '05 XLR I bought for my Wife (25,xxx miles) went through this also. Bought the car in 2013 and when this started occurring, it did not happen to me if I were driving, but my Wife, at 5'2" was getting it at a quickly increasing frequency. Took it to the only local dealer three different times, amounting to approximately 2.5 months. I'd first done some research both in this forum and the corvette forum. Checked to see if the harness had received the orange comb from the TSB. It was there, but put in backwards. I corrected it, and no issue for a short period. But, then started again, resulting in going to the dealer.
First I was told it needed the steering position sensor. Ok, had it replaced. Soon back to the same issue. Back to the dealer for a while, then told it needed the yaw sensor. Guaranteed that was the issue and replacement would finally solve it. Ok, had it replaced.
Drove the car away, within a couple of miles, same issue. Drove it back, got the service manager and told him how unhappy I was.
I am not an engineer, much less an electrical engineer. However, I believe i have some fairly good deductive skills and have maintained cars and rebuilt classics for more years than I can probably remember clearly. The manager plugged in his dealer OBD and kept getting differing messages. I told him I believed it had to be within the connections/connectivity of the harnesses. He ignored me and told me it needed a new yaw sensor. Told him his folks had just replaced it and that he had guaranteed me that was the solution. After a few more minutes with the reader he told me it needed the steering position sensor. Told him his folks had replaced that the first time less than two months ago. He asked for time. Left it with him.
Two to three weeks later he called and I went by the dealership. He said it needed the body control module. I said no, give me the car and I'll do it my way.
Ordered a new steering column harness for $123 and took to a nearby Chevy dealer. Asked them to install it. Got it back and it did not have an issue...until a couple of weeks ago.
Through this forum, I learned about certified XLR techs. Found out from the Chevy dealer that the Cadillac dealer had a certified XLR tech at their other dealership (chevy, then became chevy/cadillac recently) in another state, nearby.
Took the car to them, learning their tech had recently opened his own shop, but the service manager had also been one. Left it with them this past Friday. Received a call on Wednesday that it needed the yaw sensor...gremlins doing their misdirection again?!?
Told them to check again. Check the harness to see if the comb had been replaced when the new harness had been installed, and the tightness of the pin connectors, with the steering column harness and further down the line.
I'd been asking my Wife if the steering column was still moving when she got in and out, her assuring me that she had been able to set her seat to a position that didn't require the steering wheel to adjust. Was talking with her when she got in a short while back and I saw the steering wheel was adjusting a good bit. That was just a two to three months ago, now the issue.
So for about a year it had been moving.
I think GM has been quite negligent on this issue and have read at least one death has occurred in the corvette community.
My Wife is very anxious and actually scared of this car now.

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Wow- thanks for sharing your on-going story.
Sounds like you have done everything possible.

I was told I'd have to replace the steering position sensor if the comb didn't fix my issue. Luckily I haven't seen any message pop-up in the DIC or have any recent issues driving.
But like you warned- could pop up at any time!

Might be worth joining the Corvette Forum and posting your experience there. Sounds like they have the same set-up as ours, and same issues. With the higher # of C6s on the road compared to XLRs, they might have stumbled across a solution?
http://www.corvetteforum.com/

 

[rldavid71]

Addt'l - Feedback on Stabilitrak

Also, I have noted that of the posts on this, and a corvette forum, it appears GM made some change(s) for the 2009 models. The years 2004 - 2008 seem to be years with reports on this issue.

If so, it seems GM could get with it and cause the same change(s) to the affected years.

I still firmly believe the issue is in the harness(s) and movement of the steering wheel. Especially the in the steering column harness.

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

I just realized that my steering wheel hasn't been lifting up out of the way when I turn the car off and exit for the past few months.
Probably a good thing, because that might cause extra wear on the parts.
Might be wise for folks with 2004-2008 to disable this feature?

Disappointed that GM has not performed a mandatory safety recall. It is SCARY as hell when it happens and very dangerous.

 

[MarkSki]

This may or may not help you. I ran into the stability track needing service and under warrantee the steering column part was replaced.

While driving I would get that message and along with that I would see speed restricted to 80 mph, radar not operating, all of the gauges going nuts, and a mess of other messages.

I took this car back to the dealer several times for these problems and nothing that they installed worked.

My last visit I showed the Tech all of the harnesses in the compartment in the trunk on the drivers side were not secure but just jammed in. The hydraulic pump had been changed and everything was just stuffed in. After showing him this I got into the car to leave and it would not start. Everything lite up but no start. I called the Tech back and he tried to start the car without any luck.

I moved the harnesses around while he was in the car and presto, he was able to start the car. I took the car home, I cleaned all of the harness connections and did my best to anchor them all down. I've never had another message pop up on the DIC since and that was almost a year ago.

You might do as I did and check those connections, it worked for me.