Help! $2800 wasted on shocks; rear driver side too low; electrical problems caused the dealership

[SanDiegoXLR]

Ok- so here is the latest from the technician's report: INSPECTION FOUND:LEFT REAR TRANSVERSE SPRING PAD-MISSING-CAUSING
DAMAGE TO LEFT REAR LOWER CONTROL ARM\NOTE:ACCORDING TO PARTS BOTH
REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS HAVE TO BE REPLACED IN PAIRS\RECOMMEND:
REPLACE REAR TRANSVERSE SPRING-AND-BOTH REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS

LABOR IS $425.00
SPRING IS $507.00
CONTROL ARMS ARE $562.00
TOTAL COST OF REPAIRS AFTER TAX IS $1494.00

If you would like to supply your own parts here are the part#’s to ensure correct parts are ordered. spring is #15233391, control arm #20799879, control arm #20799880

OUCH----that is expensive.
I can get the leaf spring for $323 and the control arms for $360 on GM Parts Outlet | Genuine GM® Parts - Fast Free Shipping = $683 for parts
Not really sure what to do. I hate to throw away another $1100 to fix this problem. Would it be reasonable to request that they cover the labor (and maybe the parts?) since they misdiagnosed it in the first place?
Or I guess I could just leave it as-is until I sell the car in a few years. Will just have to go REALLY slow over speedbumps.
What exactly does the control arm do other than adjust the height of the car? Would not repairing this damage anything else?

 

[klaptrapper]

A question I would ask, is "why the leaf spring?"? .
I can't imagine why the leaf spring itself would require replacement. That is a 'stout' item.
Did the lower control arm on the affected side, get worn severely enough to compromise it's integrity?
Unless the loss in integrety is severe enough, I would just replace the "missing" pad. Although the questiion may still remain, how did the pad get "missing"? I'm pretty certain it must be secured (captured) pretty well in its "perch".
Before I would leave it and drive it as is, I'd take it to a good, reputable repair shop and have them replace the pad.
Just my 2 cents.


Rusty 06 V

Ok- so here is the latest from the technician's report: INSPECTION FOUND:LEFT REAR TRANSVERSE SPRING PAD-MISSING-CAUSING
DAMAGE TO LEFT REAR LOWER CONTROL ARM\NOTE:ACCORDING TO PARTS BOTH
REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS HAVE TO BE REPLACED IN PAIRS\RECOMMEND:
REPLACE REAR TRANSVERSE SPRING-AND-BOTH REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS

LABOR IS $425.00
SPRING IS $507.00
CONTROL ARMS ARE $562.00
TOTAL COST OF REPAIRS AFTER TAX IS $1494.00

If you would like to supply your own parts here are the part#’s to ensure correct parts are ordered. spring is #15233391, control arm #20799879, control arm #20799880

OUCH----that is expensive.
I can get the leaf spring for $323 and the control arms for $360 on GM Parts Outlet | Genuine GM® Parts - Fast Free Shipping = $683 for parts
Not really sure what to do. I hate to throw away another $1100 to fix this problem. Would it be reasonable to request that they cover the labor (and maybe the parts?) since they misdiagnosed it in the first place?
Or I guess I could just leave it as-is until I sell the car in a few years. Will just have to go REALLY slow over speedbumps.
What exactly does the control arm do other than adjust the height of the car? Would not repairing this damage anything else?

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Hi Rusty- EXCELLENT points!! thanks for sharing
It doesn't state that the leaf spring is damaged- so why would that need to be replaced? I should ask to see it up on the lift. Does it have cracks in it?

And yes- can't the pad just be replaced instead of the whole unit?

Even though they are recommending both control arms to be replaced in pairs-----since they can be purchased and replaced individually- it makes sense to just repair the damaged one, if that is even needed after the pad is replaced.

Does anyone know the part # for the pad?
I tried finding it here-
Suspension Subframe Crossmember/Shocks and Struts for 2005 Cadillac XLR
wonder if they are referring to: Part # 10280659 Leaf Spring Plate, Rear
It's only a $7 part!

I'll definitely get a 2nd opinion before giving this dealership any more of my $$$. Learned my lesson the hard way with the shocks.
-Mark

 

[ccclarke]

Greetings Mark!

I did a little shopping around with your parts list and so far, gmpartsdirect.com has the best prices:

Leaf Spring: 283.43
Control Arms: 156.71 ea.

Total before shipping: 596.85

(Do be aware that some of the discount sites can make a fortune on shipping, which can eat up the margin you save when shopping around.)

It looks like the pad(s) are mounted to the outside ends of the spring and are included as part of the Transverse Spring assembly. The $7 "plate" you referred to is called out as a Transverse Spring Retainer in the Service Manual. Using that part number at the afore-mentioned site, it's called a retainer, so that closely matches what I'm seeing in the Service Manual. Why they can't just break it out from the Transverse Spring assembly and give you what you really need is beyond me. . . . It sure is a profitable business model though . . .


The Transverse Spring needs a special tool ( J 33432-A) to apply a bow to it to get it to fit when installing. This may be available at a Chevy dealer for Corvette installations; you would need to check if getting the service done there, should you have to replace it.

I attended the "If it works, don't fix it" School of Thought, and graduated near the bottom of my class. But I did graduate! While you may get boned on the spring replacement, I would only replace the Control Arm if it's damaged, and leave the other one in place - unless they want to perform the whole job on their dime since they blew their diagnosis the first time. The ride height on either side is adjustable. I understand why they're telling you this, but also know money doesn't grow on trees. You've got new shocks to smooth the ride out; I doubt leaving an undamaged control arm in there is going to make that much of a difference.

Either way, I would get a second opinion, and then decide what course of action to take. (Just my .02.)

We had a perfect acronym for this kind of situation in the military when awaiting the inevitable Shaft of Events: BOHICA. (Bend Over Here It Comes Again.) This qualifies as a BOHICA kind of moment.

CC

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Hi CC, As always- thanks for your detailed help!!! You have a great deal of XLR knowledge!

I went and saw the car up on the lift at the dealership.


Basically, item # 15 in this diagram has completely warn away on the left rear (it has a 3" round pad that presses on the spring):
[FONT=Verdana, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Suspension Subframe Crossmember/Shocks and Struts for 2005 Cadillac XLR
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
However, the dealership is stating the entire rear spring has to be replaced because they cannot replace just that 1 part.[/FONT]

There is no visible damage to the leaf spring. But again, they claim there is no way to just replace the part that is missing.

[FONT=Verdana, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]They have stated that I need to replace the right rear control arm due to a design change (I guess GM realized this part needed to be re-designed due to issues?), and that the load may not be even if I just change the left control arm.
I'm tempted to just take some sort of durable gasket doughnut and just shove it there to see if it fixes the $1500 problem.

I have e-mailed two highly reviewed local San Diego Corvette shops- "Top Flight Corvette Shop" and "The Corvette Shop" to see if they have any alternative ideas to fix the issue.
Stay tuned![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[ccclarke]

I researched C5 corvette rear suspension parts and the control arms have the same part numbers. The leaf spring looks the same, but has several different part numbers for suspension options. (FE 1, FE 2.) The upgraded lower control arm has a redesigned ball joint, so I understand why they need to be replaced as a pair.

This still begs the question: Did you see any damage that warrants replacement of the lower control arm? With your dealer's demonstrated knack for throwing parts at your car. . .

You may be in luck indeed:

I Googled "C6 Corvette Rear Transverse Spring Pads" and there appear to be aftermarket pads available. A drive to a corvette shop should reward you with a knowledgeable answer for obtaining a premium part at a cost much lower than an entire spring assembly.

There is no way I would continue to drive a car that bottoms out for any length of time; the risk of causing more damage, and incurring even more expensive repairs is too great. PS: Here's a better explanation of how the rear suspension leaf springs work than I could ever make up: Corvette leaf spring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CC

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

One of the Corvette places called me back, and they said that this a fairly common problem for C5 and C6 Vettes.
In the old design- the rubber sits flat; the factory didn't install lubrication when they installed it- so the dry rubber against the dry aluminum causes wearing.
The revised version moves the angle of the pad so that it doesn't bite so hard.
He told me not to buy any parts and that he wanted to look at it.

So I go to pick up my car from the dealership today----while it was in for the suspension issue, I asked them to replace the rear struts for the trunk (because it doesn't stay open very well during colder months).
NOW THE TOP IS BROKEN.
UGH!!! In the 5 years I've owned the car, it has been able to retract the top 100% of the time.
I've had issues where the trunk wouldn't open with the fob, so I've replaced all 4 of the position sensors over the past couple of years.
But even while having those problems, the top would always go down.

Now when I press the key fob- the trunk goes up and you can hear the motor continuously go and go and go. It won't stop unless you press the fob key.
And when you go to retract the convertible top- the back panel lifts up, but gets stuck there....motor just keeps going.

Of course they claim they didn't break it while working on it.
So tomorrow will be my 5th trip to the dealership in 2 weeks.....sighhhhhhhhh.

 

[ccclarke]

During maintenance, whenever a new problem is discovered, it's prudent to re-visit whatever was being performed prior to. In this case, the rear deck lid hydraulic cylinders were replaced, so that's where I would begin troubleshooting.


The hydraulic system needs to be inspected, and the first thing to check would be the fluid level in the reservoir. Another possible issue could be air in the hydraulic lines. Either way, the dealership induced a problem and they should make it right for you. Depending on length of travel after the new cylinders were installed, a sensor could be getting a new position angle, which would stop operation, since the values wouldn't match those stored in the Folding Top Control module. In this case, a re-learn is warranted.

Good luck tomorrow!

CC

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Hi CC- I bet you are right- hope it's just a simple "re-learn".
What is odd is that after they removed the trunk struts, they had the whole trunk propped in a very far up position (higher than it normally goes) for at least 24 hours.
That definitely could cause the position sensors to get confused. And possibly the replacement struts are now slightly higher or lower.

Praying that it is a simple and cheap fix....like my fuse issue ;-)

 

[pure zen]

Having no luck with repairs,,,

SanDiegoX,,,, I think its time to take your car to another GM dealership for repairs....(Chevy or Buick dealership in your area). This dealership service department sounds like a bunch of professional 'guessers' and BS'ers,,,at your expense.

If I had all of the issues you have recently posted,,,,I'd be selling the car or trading it in a.s.a.p.
The frustration and expense must be wearing on you

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Thanks for your empathy! Yeah, really weird that the car has been pretty reliable for 5 years that I've had it (2009-2014), but has really gone downhill recently.
A bit of background- before this car, I previously owned a 1990 Miata, a 2003 Honda S2000, and a 2005 V6 Honda Accord. Miata was nimble, but way too small (I'm 6'2", 210#). The S2000 was VERY FUN, but a theft magnet in SoCal (had the car stolen twice....one time the thieves cut the top and stole the tan leather seats- it cost my insurance company $12,000 to replace both the seats and top!!)
The Accord was pretty boring, but nice interior and ULTRA reliable. Oddly enough, I purchased my XLR from a Honda dealership in Sacramento, California. The previous owner traded it in for 2009 Honda Accord. I was wondering "why in the world would he trade it in for an Accord?". I had the XLR checked out at the Sacramento Cadillac dealer before I bought it and everyone checked out fine.
About a year after owning it- I was able to have my local dealer provide a history of ALL repairs. Holy cow- the owner before me had just about EVERYTHING replaced- the navigation system, catalytic converter, CD changer, front suspension pieces, all of the top's mechanisms- pumps, sensors, etc. Pages after pages. No wonder why he traded it in for a worry-free Accord.
But the good news for me is that all of these parts were new and should last a while.
So I'm at the cross-road where should I continue to spend money on repairs or just sell it before anything major breaks? It has 90k miles, and I know re-sale values PLUMMET like a rock once you go past 100,0000. Once the top and suspension are fixed- I'd imagine CarMax might give me $15-17k as a trade-in?
What complicates the decision is that there aren't any good replacement cars that check all the boxes: 1. RWD, 2. retractable hard top, 3. reliable, 4. at least 200hp, 5. under $50k
The MB SL is even more unreliable than the XLR. 3-series BMWs are expensive to maintain. The Infiniti G37/Q60 convertible is known to have lots of issues. The Lexus IS and SC430 convertibles are ugly. The MB SLK and BMW Z4 are too small.
What's left?

 

[David_B]

Well, of your recent problems, the only one that looked like a real problem was your rear suspension problem.

The top problem was caused by your dealership.

The premature shock buy was because of your dealership.

The cutting of your wire harness was because of your dealership.

From what I've read so far, you have a Dealership problem, not really a bunch of car problems.

Might be time to check out the Chevy dealership..

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Well, I didn't mention the oil leak, the burned DRLs in the headlights, the Lockpick iPod integration issues, the check engine light, and a few other things I've learned to live with ;-)
The dealership admitted to breaking a sensor while installing the trunk struts. At least they agreed to replace it.
Not having a car for all of these days is probably just putting me in a bad mood.

And yes- hopefully going to a new dealership will help!!

 

[gsbarry]

I had same problem... damn stealership

Don't get me started on stealerships. Your experience is all too common, and is the reason I avoid stealerships whenever possible. The are basically professional b/s 'ers that prey people's lack of knowledge.

Now, to your suspension issue...

This is a relatively simple, cheap fix. The stealership is trying to gouge you again. There are aftermarket "trim height adjustment bolts" designed for corvettes that will solve your problem. You can get a pair - though you only need one - for $50. This bolts right into the leaf spring. You will likely need a longer bolt though, than what is normal for corvettes. So you are really buying the aftermarket pad, then swapping in a matching but longer bolt - an extra 2" or so should be good. You will have to separate the lower control arm from the knuckle/spindle to create enough space to remove the adjustment bolt. The bolts are typically quite stubborn, a high quality 10mm socket w/ 3/8" drive is recommended due to the torque necessary - 1/4" drive will likely snap. It well help to soak the bolt in penetrating oil overnight as well. I use a 50/50 mix of acetone and "marvel mystery oil" for stuck bolts - which is what I did when I had the same problem. I highly doubt your control arm is damaged enough to warrant replacement. Most likely just a few knicks from the damaged bolt - but inspect it yourself - don't believe what the stealership tells you - they lie, cheat, and steal for a living (independent mechanics are more likely to be honest - but this is not given either).

Here's a couple pics of what I had - the bolt had snapped, not just pad fell off - control arm was fine, but I only drove a few blocks like this, b/c I knew something was wrong right away.



When it's all back together check that your ride height is level side side to side, you turn the bolt to adjust the height - hence the name. I can provide much more guidance to perform the repair if you want to do it yourself and need help. Parts cost should not be more $60. A fair price from a vette shop for this repair would be $120-$150 - 1.5 labor hours max.

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

Hi gsbarry.....thanks for your detailed description.
Was able to take it to an independent Corvette shop (Welcome to Top Flight Corvette Inc. - A San Diego Auto Specialist Shop) and they were able to fix it for $200, instead of the $1500 Marvin K Brown wanted.
They replaced part # 15 in the diagram I previously posted (a $10 part they had sitting around), which the dealership said was impossible to replace.
There was some very very minor rubbing on the driver's side control arm, but he was able to buff it out....as good as new.
They also had me sit in the car to take measurements, and adjusted the trim height adjustment bolts to get it perfectly even from driver to passenger sides.
He said that I should have NEVER replaced the rear shocks- had nothing to do with issue.
What's interesting is that he told me there a a kit from Casper electronics for $300 that allows you to swap out the Magnetic ride control shocks. So you can buy 4 high performance regular shocks for $500 instead of $600-$1000 PER OEM magnetic ride control shock. Lots of Corvette owners have done this. I know a lot of folks on this board go on and on about how awesome the magnetic ride control shocks are- but I honestly can't tell the difference compared to regular shocks on other cars I've owned (Miata, S2000, Accord). It's mostly just marketing hype- and dealers LOVE all the profit they make replacing them.
I'm tempted to file a Better Business Bureau complaint about Marvin K Brown for all the crap they pulled. Probably not worth the time and effort.
At least now I'm glad I've found a reputable shop that I trust. My car just turned 90k- so going to have them do the transmission flush, change the rear diff fluid, etc. They are going to get ALL OF MY BUSINESS from now on. And I'm happy that I don't have to go new car shopping....I really do love my XLR, especially now that everything is fixed correctly.

So a lesson to everyone ...if your dealership claims you need expensive repairs- take it to independent Corvette shop for a 2nd opinion!

-------------------------------------

Don't get me started on stealerships. Your experience is all too common, and is the reason I avoid stealerships whenever possible. The are basically professional b/s 'ers that prey people's lack of knowledge.

Now, to your suspension issue...

This is a relatively simple, cheap fix. The stealership is trying to gouge you again. There are aftermarket "trim height adjustment bolts" designed for corvettes that will solve your problem. You can get a pair - though you only need one - for $50. This bolts right into the leaf spring. You will likely need a longer bolt though, than what is normal for corvettes. So you are really buying the aftermarket pad, then swapping in a matching but longer bolt - an extra 2" or so should be good. You will have to separate the lower control arm from the knuckle/spindle to create enough space to remove the adjustment bolt. The bolts are typically quite stubborn, a high quality 10mm socket w/ 3/8" drive is recommended due to the torque necessary - 1/4" drive will likely snap. It well help to soak the bolt in penetrating oil overnight as well. I use a 50/50 mix of acetone and "marvel mystery oil" for stuck bolts - which is what I did when I had the same problem. I highly doubt your control arm is damaged enough to warrant replacement. Most likely just a few knicks from the damaged bolt - but inspect it yourself - don't believe what the stealership tells you - they lie, cheat, and steal for a living (independent mechanics are more likely to be honest - but this is not given either).

Here's a couple pics of what I had - the bolt had snapped, not just pad fell off - control arm was fine, but I only drove a few blocks like this, b/c I knew something was wrong right away.

View attachment 4759 View attachment 4760

When it's all back together check that your ride height is level side side to side, you turn the bolt to adjust the height - hence the name. I can provide much more guidance to perform the repair if you want to do it yourself and need help. Parts cost should not be more $60. A fair price from a vette shop for this repair would be $120-$150 - 1.5 labor hours max.

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

in case anyone is curious- here is the part that was replaced

 

[SanDiegoXLR]

here's the control arm.....applying lubrication is the key to stopping the friction which caused the pad to fall off in the first place

 

[David_B]

If you look on Yelp you will see the way you were treated is SOP for this dealership since 2009.
Seems the owner and his family running the place love making money anyway they can.
You could always add your story on yelp, they could use a newer bad review..

Hi gsbarry.....thanks for your detailed description.
Was able to take it to an independent Corvette shop (Welcome to Top Flight Corvette Inc. - A San Diego Auto Specialist Shop) and they were able to fix it for $200, instead of the $1500 Marvin K Brown wanted.
They replaced part # 15 in the diagram I previously posted (a $10 part they had sitting around), which the dealership said was impossible to replace.
There was some very very minor rubbing on the driver's side control arm, but he was able to buff it out....as good as new.
They also had me sit in the car to take measurements, and adjusted the trim height adjustment bolts to get it perfectly even from driver to passenger sides.
He said that I should have NEVER replaced the rear shocks- had nothing to do with issue.
What's interesting is that he told me there a a kit from Casper electronics for $300 that allows you to swap out the Magnetic ride control shocks. So you can buy 4 high performance regular shocks for $500 instead of $600-$1000 PER OEM magnetic ride control shock. Lots of Corvette owners have done this. I know a lot of folks on this board go on and on about how awesome the magnetic ride control shocks are- but I honestly can't tell the difference compared to regular shocks on other cars I've owned (Miata, S2000, Accord). It's mostly just marketing hype- and dealers LOVE all the profit they make replacing them.
I'm tempted to file a Better Business Bureau complaint about Marvin K Brown for all the crap they pulled. Probably not worth the time and effort.
At least now I'm glad I've found a reputable shop that I trust. My car just turned 90k- so going to have them do the transmission flush, change the rear diff fluid, etc. They are going to get ALL OF MY BUSINESS from now on. And I'm happy that I don't have to go new car shopping....I really do love my XLR, especially now that everything is fixed correctly.

So a lesson to everyone ...if your dealership claims you need expensive repairs- take it to independent Corvette shop for a 2nd opinion!

-------------------------------------

 

[SJP]

Help on Long Island

Hi Guys After reading these horror repair stories, I was wondering if anyone would recommend a Dealer on Long Island for repairs. My 09 is fine just looking to the future. Thanks Steve

 

[lextoy]

any way to lube that part without full dissassembly? think if you spread some grease around the edge it could work its way in? does it flex inward or outward when loaded unloaded? for those of us who wont disassemble just to lube...