Help! Advice needed re: catalytic converter, and response to questions appreciated

[david22]

After inspection w/ gm tech 2 and P0420 present, Dealer advised replacing Rt. Cat. Converter, at app. $800 parts, $2000 labor.Prior to this estimate After reset, drove 400 mi. before engine light came back on, kept driving another 1200mi. Lt. went out, then reappeared. This happened twice. Now it remains on. In a previous thread on the forum
GismoQ weighed in with, find a skilled exhaust specialist , with HP Tuners and have rear sensors turned off. Cut a rectangle in bottom of cats, gut them , weld the piece back on and expect a total cost of app. $400.
My questions, 1. have any of you tried this and what were the results, was there any difference in overall performance, and would the car pass smog.
2.What risk if any am I assuming by doing nothing for now if the car seems to be performing as it should with no sluggishness or symptoms, (I'm not due for smog for 12 more months).
3. GismoQ believes the rear sensor must remain off therefore, since it was indicated to me that there are 2 cats and this is the right one, should I only shut off the rt. sensor, or both still, and will that trigger other erroneous codes by default.
4. Do you believe I should cut out the rt. cat only or both .
5. Lastly, if I do gut out both cats.what difference if any might I expect in performance and running normalcy.
In advance, many thanks to any or all willing to weigh in on this, David22 05' Raven xlr (mistress I love).

 

[David_B]

Or find a different place to have the work done.

Dealership is quoting you doing it the book way, others here have said you can do it without removing the engine..

 

[nerkpowers]

If you have to pass emissions testing, I would not advise removing your catalytic converter. They will test for both CO (carbon monoxide) and NOx (nitrous oxides) which the catalytic systems reduce to acceptable limits. I would replace the downstream sensor before I would replace the converter. I can't think of a reason why the Cat would go bad. There are some things that can poison the Platinum and Rhodium (metals, usually) but rarely.
In most cases, the emissions system is still under warranty for 8 years or 80,000 mi.


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[Stella]

After inspection w/ gm tech 2 and P0420 present, Dealer advised replacing Rt. Cat. Converter, at app. $800 parts, $2000 labor.Prior to this estimate After reset, drove 400 mi. before engine light came back on, kept driving another 1200mi. Lt. went out, then reappeared. This happened twice. Now it remains on. In a previous thread on the forum
GismoQ weighed in with, find a skilled exhaust specialist , with HP Tuners and have rear sensors turned off. Cut a rectangle in bottom of cats, gut them , weld the piece back on and expect a total cost of app. $400.
My questions, 1. have any of you tried this and what were the results, was there any difference in overall performance, and would the car pass smog.
2.What risk if any am I assuming by doing nothing for now if the car seems to be performing as it should with no sluggishness or symptoms, (I'm not due for smog for 12 more months).
3. GismoQ believes the rear sensor must remain off therefore, since it was indicated to me that there are 2 cats and this is the right one, should I only shut off the rt. sensor, or both still, and will that trigger other erroneous codes by default.
4. Do you believe I should cut out the rt. cat only or both .
5. Lastly, if I do gut out both cats.what difference if any might I expect in performance and running normalcy.
In advance, many thanks to any or all willing to weigh in on this, David22 05' Raven xlr (mistress I love).

Gutting the cats will allow the engine to breathe better. A engine is just a big air pump. The faster you can get the air in and out the more horsepower. You would see minimal gains without complimenting it with larger full exhaust,larger intake,throttle body,mass air meter,etc. The one thing you would notice is the sound of the exhaust. If I had to replace one I would do the other because my luck the other would go out a week later. It's been said that you can replace the headers without removal of the engine. Probably have to disconnect and raise engine to get as much room as possible. Disconnecting the downstream o2 sensors would probably stop codes if gutting the cats. Would think a check engine light would go on but you may be able to bypass
You can probably get nicer aftermarket header with cats for the price of oem. Then get full exhaust you would probably see 10-20 hp???

 

[05 GRAND DADDY]

Corsa Exhaust claims to boost 15 HP


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Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"

 

[XLRJIM]

Catalytic converter poor performance code P0420

Back in July I posted about getting check engine code for catalytic converter performance. Replacing the oem cats is a big deal since they are part of the exhaust manifold assembly. Dealer will only fix in this manner.

I took car to an independent garage where tech said he thought he might be able to cut the converters off and weld new ones in but had never done it. His suggestion to me was to buy a can of catalytic converter fluid, reset the code and drive the car hard with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and see if the code came back. I bought a bottle of Cataclean converter cleaner at Pep Boys, reset the code and drove it up the freeway into the mountains to get it really hot. 3 months later code has never come back. For $20 or so it is worth trying in your case.

If you remove the cats or gut them or remove the sensors my mechanic friend says it will not pass California smog tests.

Good luck JIM

 

[david22]

cat help from others, Thanks Jim, naturally I will try this first.

Back in July I posted about getting check engine code for catalytic converter performance. Replacing the oem cats is a big deal since they are part of the exhaust manifold assembly. Dealer will only fix in this manner.

I took car to an independent garage where tech said he thought he might be able to cut the converters off and weld new ones in but had never done it. His suggestion to me was to buy a can of catalytic converter fluid, reset the code and drive the car hard with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and see if the code came back. I bought a bottle of Cataclean converter cleaner at Pep Boys, reset the code and drove it up the freeway into the mountains to get it really hot. 3 months later code has never come back. For $20 or so it is worth trying in your case.

If you remove the cats or gut them or remove the sensors my mechanic friend says it will not pass California smog tests.

Good luck JIM

appreciate the suggestion, before gutting cats I will try this. How many miles have you put on since the Cataclean and no repeat with the engine light if I may ask..Thanks, David

 

[05 GRAND DADDY]

Hi Jim is there any recommendation of how many miles this should be done or just when an issue like your was noticed or can it be a maintenance type thing every so often? Thx Dan


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Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"

 

[XLRJIM]

catalytic converter

appreciate the suggestion, before gutting cats I will try this. How many miles have you put on since the Cataclean and no repeat with the engine light if I may ask..Thanks, David

I have put about 1100 miles on it. Both dealer and mechanic told me I dont drive it enough to get the system hot. Most trips with the car have been a mile or so each way. So have been driving it more and getting couple spins on the freeway everyweek. So far so good.
BTW I only have 49K on it and almost all short trips. Good luck. I am not a fan of additives but, this seemed to work. Although it may be just the extra driving is keeping system cleaner. I do use top tier gas, mostly Shell in it.

Good luck JIM

 

[XLRJIM]

Cataclean

Hi Jim is there any recommendation of how many miles this should be done or just when an issue like your was noticed or can it be a maintenance type thing every so often? Thx Dan


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Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"

I don't know if it makes sense to put it in if you are not having a problem. I tend to think most fuel tank additives make little or no difference in the performance of the car. Personally I will not put an other bottle in unless I get a code again.

JIM

 

[05 GRAND DADDY]

I don't know if it makes sense to put it in if you are not having a problem. I tend to think most fuel tank additives make little or no difference in the performance of the car. Personally I will not put an other bottle in unless I get a code again.

JIM

That makes sense and I'd also believe the the short trips does have lot to do with it! I tend to take mine out a couple of times a driving season and give it a good hard run and long highway trips gets them good and hot! Thanks for the feed back I surely appreciate it! Have a wonderful day!


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Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"

 

[cragzopz]

thanks for the Cataclean info

Back in July I posted about getting check engine code for catalytic converter performance. Replacing the oem cats is a big deal since they are part of the exhaust manifold assembly. Dealer will only fix in this manner.

I took car to an independent garage where tech said he thought he might be able to cut the converters off and weld new ones in but had never done it. His suggestion to me was to buy a can of catalytic converter fluid, reset the code and drive the car hard with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and see if the code came back. I bought a bottle of Cataclean converter cleaner at Pep Boys, reset the code and drove it up the freeway into the mountains to get it really hot. 3 months later code has never come back. For $20 or so it is worth trying in your case.

If you remove the cats or gut them or remove the sensors my mechanic friend says it will not pass California smog tests.

Good luck JIM

This code has shown up on my xlr-v. Had one side done for about $1,500. Now code says other side needs it. $21 sounds much beter than the $1,500. Great info--worth trying. thanks again-mark

 

[gamblingman]

Unless you live in a state that has a smog-testing requirement there isn't a single reason to touch your Cats.
If it is worth $2,000 to get a check engine light to go off, you must have a lot more money than me to waste.

 

[Stella]

Unless you live in a state that has a smog-testing requirement there isn't a single reason to touch your Cats.
If it is worth $2,000 to get a check engine light to go off, you must have a lot more money than me to waste.

I would hope all states require it! In illinois they stop after a certain year back. Which I think is ass backwards. Those are the cars that need to be tested. I see 90's model cars blowin smoke everywhere.
A clogged cat would restrict airflow from that entire side of the engine. Probably resulting in terrible performance, gas mileage,etc. You'd pay that in gas difference over a period of time let alone damaging who knows what else.
If you can't pay to repair the car you probably shouldn't be driving it! Just my 2 cents and u can have it.

 

[gamblingman]

Let me start by saying that a catalytic converter does that and only that. Converts certain forms of carbon molecules to other forms (CO to CO2) This serves to decrease the level of street-level noxious gases coming from your tailpipe. It DOES NOT reduce the levels of CO2 entering our atmosphere in any way. Congress and most politicians don't know the difference between tailpipe CO2 emissions, and gas mileage standards. Also, passenger cars are frequently pointed to as the biggest problem with CO2 emissions. A simple google search will dispel this myth, they account for an extremely low percentage of CO2 emissions in this country and the world. Catalytic converters are "feel good" devices for politicians to say they are doing something about smog or other ailments not primarily caused by passenger cars, while the real polluters are left to do whatever they can to continue paying taxes (IE Utilities)

That smoke you see billowing from an old car isn't CO2. Its oderless and colorless.
And I have never seen a "Clogged" catalytic converter. Not sure what would clog it. It isn't collecting your exhaust, it's catalyzing it.

 

[buki]

Let me start by saying that a catalytic converter does that and only that. Converts certain forms of carbon molecules to other forms (CO to CO2) This serves to decrease the level of street-level noxious gases coming from your tailpipe. It DOES NOT reduce the levels of CO2 entering our atmosphere in any way. Congress and most politicians don't know the difference between tailpipe CO2 emissions, and gas mileage standards. Also, passenger cars are frequently pointed to as the biggest problem with CO2 emissions. A simple google search will dispel this myth, they account for an extremely low percentage of CO2 emissions in this country and the world. Catalytic converters are "feel good" devices for politicians to say they are doing something about smog or other ailments not primarily caused by passenger cars, while the real polluters are left to do whatever they can to continue paying taxes (IE Utilities) That smoke you see billowing from an old car isn't CO2. Its oderless and colorless. And I have never seen a "Clogged" catalytic converter. Not sure what would clog it. It isn't collecting your exhaust, it's catalyzing it.

Beautifully explained my man. Now if only someone would explain the 'climate change/global warming' thing as simply the whole world would sit down and shutup. Kudos with a capital K.

 

[cubby558]

I think you need to read this and alter the statement you made. My want to do some research on what additives also do to catalytic converters.

Look upstream for the culprit in a converter failure - Eastern Manufacturing

Let me start by saying that a catalytic converter does that and only that. Converts certain forms of carbon molecules to other forms (CO to CO2) This serves to decrease the level of street-level noxious gases coming from your tailpipe. It DOES NOT reduce the levels of CO2 entering our atmosphere in any way. Congress and most politicians don't know the difference between tailpipe CO2 emissions, and gas mileage standards. Also, passenger cars are frequently pointed to as the biggest problem with CO2 emissions. A simple google search will dispel this myth, they account for an extremely low percentage of CO2 emissions in this country and the world. Catalytic converters are "feel good" devices for politicians to say they are doing something about smog or other ailments not primarily caused by passenger cars, while the real polluters are left to do whatever they can to continue paying taxes (IE Utilities)

That smoke you see billowing from an old car isn't CO2. Its oderless and colorless.
And I have never seen a "Clogged" catalytic converter. Not sure what would clog it. It isn't collecting your exhaust, it's catalyzing it.

 

[nerkpowers]

Cubby, excellent article. This article is spot on. I saw a converter at the Chrysler research center just like the first picture. I made the ceramic substrates at that time. They wanted to see what it would take to melt the ceramic substrate on their test track. We fired this material (Cordierite ceramic body) at 2600 Fahrenheit. Thanks for posting.


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[Stella]

Oh I know that the white smoke coming from the cars isn't co2. It's burning oil! Which if the pos had to take emissions would be banded from being on the streets. What do you think all that oil is doing to a cats. Blowing unburnt fuel out the exhaust is bad emissions.
I know pass. cars are a spec of the pollution problem. But if we don't do our parts to help the problem than we are just as bad as the worst of them.
Just saw a special on discovery called "raising extinction". Terrible and alarming what co2 gases are doing to the water and EVERYTHING that lives there.
I've seen multiple clogged cats,and mufflers. Cut them open and looks like a oily mess cubby's pictures show this well.

 

[V Happy]

I think you need to read this and alter the statement you made. My want to do some research on what additives also do to catalytic converters.

Look upstream for the culprit in a converter failure - Eastern Manufacturing

Cubby
This is the kind of information that make this forum worth reading. Good research !!
THANK YOU
V HAPPY