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First problem. That didn't take long

monepit

Seasoned Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
318
Location
Evansville Indiana
My XLR/V(s)
2004 black raven
I was out in the garage tonight and I thought I would put the top down. It got stuck. I was able to fuss with it for a while by helping it and got it back up. It semes like it's fighting itself. if you rock the switch from down to up and push it up it will finally go up. It worked great when I bought it. I tried it 5 or 6 times at the dealer and used it when I got home a few times too. I checked past repair's before I bought it and It has had a new pump and alot of position senso:mad:rs replaced. I heard they could be a problem from the factory but the replacements were an update and worked well so I thought it was good but it dosn't look good now. Any help would be appreciated.
 

Lola's Mom

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
3,483
Location
Southern CA
My XLR/V(s)
2004 Black Raven
Just remember to have the car running when you are putting that top up and down .... just a few times can drain your battery .... :rolleyes: Small battery.
 

Cadillac Tech

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
3,843
Location
Cicero,Indiana
This may be of help

2004 Cadillac XLR | XLR (VIN Y) Service Manual | Document ID: 2092634
#03-08-67-008C: Diagnostic Information and New Software for Power Folding Top - Stops Mid-Cycle, Deck Lid (Trunk) Inoperative, Intermittent Top Not Secure Message on DIC with No DTCs Set - (Apr 4, 2008)







Subject:Diagnostic Information And New Software For Power Folding Top -- Stops Mid-Cycle, Deck Lid (Trunk) Inoperative, Intermittent "Top Not Secure" Message On DIC With No DTCs Set







Models:2004-2008 Cadillac XLR, XLR-V





This bulletin is being revised to add the 2008 model year and release new software for the power folding top. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-08-67-008B (Section 08 -- Body & Accessories).
This bulletin provides diagnostic information for a power folding top that exhibits the following conditions:​

• The power folding top stops mid-cycle.​

• The deck lid is inoperative.​

• A "TOP NOT SECURE" message may be displayed on the Driver Information Center (DIC).​


Technicians may find that no Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) have been set.
Diagnostic Information For Intermittent Folding Top Operation

Intermittent concerns with top operation that do not set a DTC can possibly be related to top position sensors that read a position incorrectly. In such cases, the top will operate to a point and will not advance and complete the operation. In these cases, the pump will continue to run up to 15 seconds as long as the top control switch is depressed.
The top operates in a sequence of steps: the first step must be completed before the second step can start. The folding top control module reads the limit switches and position sensors (potentiometers) in order to determine if one step is complete and the next step can begin.
In order for a technician to diagnose a concern, it is important to assess and record the position of the top parameters where the roof stops (the location in the top operation sequence) and is unable to complete the cycle. It is also important to know the direction of operation, moving from top closed (coupe) to top open or moving from top open (convertible) to top closed.
Important: Performing a relearn procedure on the Folding Top Control (FTC) module will reset all of the reference parameters and the top will usually function again but the root cause of the concern will not have been corrected.
Sequence for Opening the Folding Top

Before any movement of the folding top toward the open position is allowed, the following conditions must be met or top operation will be inhibited:​

• The cargo cover must be pulled or extended into position (Luggage Barrier Limit Switch Closed).​

• Verify that the hydraulic pump bypass valve at the motor is in the operating position by turning the valve clockwise.​

• The valet switch is off/inactive, it is located inside the instrument panel compartment on the left side of the compartment.​

• The power windows are normalized, refer to Reinitialization of the Power Windows.​

• The vehicle is in PARK.

• The ignition is in ACCESSORY or RUN.​







To cycle the top from the closed/coupe position to the open/convertible position, press the folding top control switch to the open direction and hold. The folding top status changes to Opening and the following steps will then take place:
  1. The windows will express open (if closed). The front tonneau (three piece closure behind the seats) opens. The header latch unlatches. This latch is located in the middle forward area of the roof panel. The deck lid/trunk lid opens. Tip

  1. If the top operation will not advance past Step 2, it is possible that:​

    • The FTC module is not reading the Front Tonneau Position Sensor value at or above the Front Tonneau Open Reference Position Value.​

    • The FTC module is not reading the Header Latch Limit Switches as Unlatched.​

    • The FTC module is not reading the Deck Lid Ajar Status and Deck Lid Latch Switch as Deck Opened.​

    • The FTC module is not reading the Deck Lid Extended as Active.​





    The top opens (roof retracts into the trunk). Tip
    If the top will not advance past Step 3, it is possible that the FTC module is not reading the Folding Top Position Sensor value at or below the Folding Top Open Reference Position value.
    The rear tonneau (the retracted panel below the deck lid) extends. Tip
    If the top will not advance past Step 4, it is possible that the FTC module is not reading the Rear Tonneau Position Sensor value at or below the Rear Tonneau Closed Reference Position value.
    The front tonneau closes. The header latch latches, securing the roof panel with the structure behind the seats. Tip
    If the top operation will not advance past Step 5, it is possible that:​

    • The FTC module is not reading the Front Tonneau Position Sensor value at or below the Front Tonneau Closed Reference Position value.​

    • The FTC module is not reading the Header Latch Limit Switches as Latched.​

  2. The trunk lid closes. Sequence complete.
Sequence for Closing the Folding Top




Before any movement of the folding top toward the closed position is allowed, the following conditions must be met or top operation will be inhibited:


• The cargo cover must be pulled or extended into position (Luggage Barrier Limit Switch Closed).​


• Verify that the hydraulic pump bypass valve at the motor is in the operating position by turning the valve clockwise.​


• The valet switch is off/inactive, it is located inside the instrument panel compartment on the left side of the compartment.​


• The power windows are normalized, refer to Reinitialization of the Power Windows.

• The vehicle is in PARK.

• The ignition is in ACCESSORY or RUN.​







cycle the top from the open position to the closed position, press the folding top control switch in the close direction and hold. The folding top status changes to Closing and the following steps will then take place:
  1. The windows will express open (if closed). The front tonneau (three piece closure behind the seats) opens. The header latch unlatches. This latch is located in the middle forward area of the roof panel and connects with the structure behind the seats. The trunk lid opens. Tip


  1. If the top will not advance past Step 2, it is possible that:​


    • The FTC module is not reading the Front Tonneau Position Sensor at or above the Front Tonneau Open Reference Position value (counts).​


    • The FTC module is not reading the Header Latch Limit Switches as Unlatched.​


    • The FTC module is not reading the Deck Lid Ajar Status and Deck Lid Latch Switch as Deck Opened.​


    • The FTC module is not reading the Deck Lid Extended as Active.​




    The rear tonneau (the extended panel forward of the deck lid) retracts under the deck lid. Tip

    If the top will not advance past Step 3, it is possible that the FTC module is not reading the Rear Tonneau Position Sensor at or above the Rear Tonneau Opened Reference Position value.​

    The top closes (roof extends to the windshield header). Tip

    If the top will not advance past Step 4, it is possible that the FTC module is not reading the Top Closed Limit Switch, inside the right hand guide pin receiver on the header, as Active/On.
    The front tonneau closes. The header latch latches, securing the roof panel to the windshield header. Tip
    If the top operation will not advance past Step 5, it is possible that:​





    • The FTC module is not reading the Front Tonneau Position Sensor at or below the Front Tonneau Closed Reference Position value.


    • The FTC module is not reading the Header Latches Limit Switches as Latched.​



  2. The trunk lid closes. Sequence complete.
Diagnostic Information For Intermittent Top Operation, Deck Lid Will Not Operate, Or Intermittent "Top Not Secure" Message On The DIC






Do This​

Don't Do This​

Verify potentiometer readings and install new folding top control module calibration.​

Do not replace folding top control module.

Important: Folding top operation that is free from intermittent failures to complete open or closing operations is dependent on consistent readings by the FTC module of the position sensors in the top assembly. A customer concern of incomplete top operations, when the pump continues to run with the control switch held down, may be due to inconsistent sensor readings. For example, during an open top operation, starting from the fully closed position, the front tonneau opens, the header latch unlatches, the trunk lid opens, the top retracts into the trunk and the rear tonneau extends. The next step of the sequence is the front tonneau closing and the header latch latching. If the front tonneau does not close and the pump continues to run with the control switch depressed in the open top direction, the system has failed to recognize the completion of the last step, which was the rear tonneau extending. If the rear tonneau has physically extended and the over-center links have locked in, then the probable cause of the failure is the rear tonneau position sensor reading incorrectly. In these cases DTCs are not set because the sensor is still reading inside a valid range. In this example the rear tonneau position sensor will be reporting MID to the Tech 2. If a customer concern is not repeatable by the technician then the following procedure can be used to diagnose a concern with the top position sensors.
Important: Performing a relearn procedure on the FTC module will reset all of the reference parameters and the top will usually function again but the root cause of the concern will not have been fixed.
Important: Cycling the top system repeatedly will cause the pump motor temperature to rise. If the pump gets too hot the system will suspend operation, send a "TOP MOTOR OVER TEMP" message to the DIC, and possibly set a DTC. The system can usually be cycled three complete opening and closings consecutively without overheating the pump motor. Allow at least 10 minutes after a "TOP MOTOR OVER TEMP" is observed before operating the top again.
The Tech 2 displays four parameters for each panel that uses a potentiometer to establish its position. Here is a definition of each:




Status: This describes the FTC module's interpretation of the panel position based on the position feedback from the potentiometer. The value from the potentiometer must be outside of the learned reference counts for the status to read open/closed or extended/retracted. When the value falls between the reference counts, the status will read Mid.​


Position: This is the live feedback value from the potentiometer for the panel position. The FTC module converts the potentiometer's signal voltage to counts.​


Open and Closed Reference: This is a calibrated value that the FTC module establishes after every successful cycle of the top. The FTC module will update this value when the position value goes above or below the last established reference.​



When the folding top position sensor is reading retracted it is at the low end of the scale and extended is the high end.
  1. Check the system for DTCs. If any DTCs are stored, correct them first before performing the following procedure. Note that a B3670 (Top Motor Temp Circuit) can be set as a result of repeatedly cycling the top. If this code is stored, clear it and proceed. If the top will not operate, check the DIC for messages while holding the top control switch down. The ignition must be in ACCESSORY or RUN, and power windows normalized. Use the Tech 2 to view the FTC module inputs. Capture the following panel REFERENCE counts as indicated. The Tech 2 displays four parameters for each panel that uses a potentiometer to establish it's position. Refer to the definition list above for an explanation of these terms. Use Table 3 below to capture the front tonneau, rear tonneau and folding top open and closed reference counts. The starting values can be captured before the roof is cycled. Cycle the roof either from the closed to open or open to closed position, stopping once the trunk lid has closed to capture the data. Start the engine before beginning to keep the system voltage stable.


  1. Also observe the front tonneau, rear tonneau, and folding top position counts after each half cycle. If while the top is at rest, any of the position counts change by more than one count it is likely that a concern exists with the potentiometer installation. Readings that change more than one count at rest usually indicate excessive end load on the potentiometer shaft. Remove the potentiometer, and with a small sharp pick, attempt to clean out any foreign material or excess paint from the "D" shaped hole in the receiver and then reinstall it. The relearn procedure may be necessary if the top will not complete a cycle after the potentiometer is reinstalled. Remember to have the top in the fully open or fully closed position before running the relearn procedure. Rerun the reference count recording procedure as described above and once again observe the position counts while the top is at rest.​

    Important: If a panel will not reach a given state (stays in Mid) and the top stops moving, that panel's position sensor is likely at fault.

    Review the REFERENCE counts you captured in table 3 below. Any position sensor that exhibits a variation of three reference counts or more from the start to the final cycle may require replacement. In the table 2 example the rear tonneau closed reference has a change of three counts from the second to third cycle. If the potentiometer readings indicate a variation of three or more reference counts then refer to the "Potentiometer Replace Note" below. If a new potentiometer was installed then perform the top relearn procedure. After the system is relearned perform step 6. If no sensor was replaced continue to Step 6. All Model Year vehicles including 2008 that were built prior to October 4, 2007. Reprogram the power folding top module with an updated software calibration. This new service calibration is available on TIS2WEB using the Service Programming System (SPS). As always, make sure your Tech 2® is updated with the latest software version. Important: Cycle the folding top system and verify normal operation.



  2. If the folding top operates normally return the vehicle to the customer. If the folding top does not operate properly return to Step 1. The repeatability of the readings from the potentiometers should be examined very carefully.
Potentiometer Replacement Information


Inspect the potentiometer attachment screw to be sure it is tight. A loose potentiometer will exhibit poor repeatability. Also inspect the involved linkage for binding or interference. The rear tonneau potentiometer's harness routing is critical. Refer to the graphics below for the correct routing. If an issue is identified within these areas, correct it first and then fill out Table 3 again to check the variation in the open and closed reference counts.​


After the inspection above, the most common reason for a potentiometer to not have repeatable readings is poor fit (clearance) between the potentiometer's white D shaped shaft and the D shaped hole in the linkage it interfaces with. It is an interference fit by design so no play exists between the shaft and the linkage. For this reason it is important to be sure that the hole has no obstructions, such as residual epoxy from a previous repair. Carefully inspect the D hole to be sure the new potentiometer will completely engage the hole. If there is any epoxy present, pick it out with a thin sharp instrument, being careful not to enlarge the hole.​


Important: Be sure to install the new potentiometer and wiring harness exactly as originally installed. Misrouting the wiring harness may lead to a wire pinch and/or possible linkage binding. Refer to the illustrations below for the correct wire harness routing. Repeat the folding top diagnostic test after all repairs are done to verify system integrity.


Correct Potentiometer Harness Routing








The illustration above shows the CORRECT routing of the rear tonneau position sensor located on the left hand trunk linkage. The protective sleeve (2) on the potentiometer wiring harness is routed underneath the wiring harness to the potentiometer connector. If the sensor currently on the vehicle is not installed exactly as shown in the illustration above, reinstall it as shown and described.​


Incorrect Potentiometer Harness Routing










The illustration above shows an INCORRECT rear tonneau potentiometer wiring harness routing. The protective sleeve (1) is routed above the wiring harness to the potentiometer connector.​


Potentiometer Wiring Harness Loop







The illustration above shows a short loop of the vehicle's wiring harness to the potentiometer connector on the outboard side of the folding top linkage. This short exposed loop of harness is as designed and should not be tie strapped down or tucked into place.​


Warranty Information



For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:


Labor Operation​


Description​


Labor Time

B9762*
Folding Top Module - Reprogram
0.4 hr
Add
Diagnostic Time
0.0-0.3 hr
*This is a unique labor operation number for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.​





WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION




© 2008 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.​
 

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