Help! TOP PROBLEM ON 2004 XLR

[Tigerman]

Three times during the last 2 weeks the top of my 2004 XLR refused to go down on the first try. The trunk would open and the flap comes up but the top would not move. I reversed it and it worked the next time. No signs of hydraullic leaking and reservoir is full. Took it in to Cadillac dealer who has XLR tech. He tried taking the top down several times and could not make it hang up. Finally the top did not go down. He gently pushed on the top and it went down. After doing this several times he got an error of overheated. When they finished checking the car out they told me they pump needed replacing for $2,000.

My question is this. If the pump was working when I brought it in the shop, even though the top got stuck several times, how could it now need replacing? Would it just have been going bad and now died or what? I need some advice. I have read several of the comments made on tops not working but I have not read much on the pump needing replacing.

I am not mechanically inclined and am at the mercy of the dealer. I must say that they have done all the service on my XLR since I purchased it 3 years ago and I have never had any problems. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Fireduck69]

Sounds like it needs a relearn on the top to me as one of the pots is out of alignment. Maybe the pump overheated running the top up and down a few time in a row?

 

[ccclarke]

There are four causes for a TOP MOTOR OVERTEMP message to be displayed on the DIC.

1. The pump fails and requires excessive current to try to operate, raising it's temp.
2. It's too hot outside for the pump to function.
3. Excessive cycling of the hydraulic pump.
4. A faulty thermistor, which measures the pump temp.

Temperature monitoring is performed by the Folding Top Control module, as sensed by the motor thermistor. There are two high-end alarms, a pre-alarm (of 221 F) which will allow the current cycle to complete, but not allow any more operation until the motor cools down, and the too-high alarm, ( 239 F) which doesn't allow diddly-squat to happen when the Folding Top Control switch is depressed. (Pushed, not sad.)

The Folding Top will not operate below -20 F and displays, TOP TOO COLD TOO MOVE (as opposed to, ARE YOU NUTS IT"S FRIGGIN COLD OUTSIDE?) and the rear deck lid won't operate at all when the thermistor senses temps of -30 and below.

If your Folding Top was cycled repeatedly in the shop, (especially if it was a hot day) an overtemp message is normal. Is it still giving you the message now?

A vast majority of the problems with the top (especially in the 04-05s) are due to the sensor values falling out of tolerance, requiring a re-learn of the present values to be written into the control module's memory.

The second-most cause relates to sensor problems. The XLR uses A to D conversion, converting increasing/decreasing voltage across a potentiometer into digital "counts" which become the values stored in the control module memory. It's a less-than-optimal design, but cheaper to implement than using digital encoders which are more reliable.

The least-most failure is attributed to faulty pumps. Sometimes they crap out, and other times they become damaged after being submerged in their storage area. This has been extensively documented here, so I won't beat a dead horse.

If your top is working intermittently and not displaying an overtemp message, chances are it could use a re-learn, as long as the sensors are operating correctly.

Without mad skills and a couple of us to cheer you on while you change the pump as we consume your beer, you are unfortunately, tied to paying a dealer serious beer money (we're talking kegs of the good stuff!) for repairs. But it doesn't have to be that way. You can have your beer and Folding Top too.

Pump removal/re-installation isn't really hard to do yourself. Raising children is much more difficult. You can buy an O-ring kit, disconnect a couple of connectors, remove the pump with common hand tools, bag the ends of the disconnected hydraulic lines, and have the pump serviced by a vendor (mentioned elsewhere on this site) and reinstall it yourself, saving at least $2k in the process. No programming with a Tech 2 is required. The vendor will probably sell you an O-ring kit too, but they're available from GM online.

CC

 

[Tigerman]

XLR TOP WON'T GO DOWN

Thank you so much for your response Mr. Clarke. I was hoping to hear from you. I like your options a whole lot better than the one I was given. It is sure worth trying these before spending $2000. If one of these options works then I will definitely owe you a keg of beer.

Tigerman

 

[Tigerman]

TOP WON'T GO DOWN

CC. I indexed the windows in my XLR this morning and the took the top down and up twice with no problems and no messages. Hopefully this may have fixed my problem. Called the dealer and had him put the pump on hold for a week to see if the problem has been fixed permanently.

Thanks also to Fireduck69 for your response. That may have been the answer too.

Tigerman

 

[cubby558]

Glad to hear you got the top working, but just an fyi; re-indexing the windows is not a top relearn. You need a Tech II or need to take it to the dealer to have them do a relearn on the top. As cc stated, you could have some sensors not within parameters to halt the top operation. You may also have a sensor going bad, which will need to be replaced. If you got it to work, you don't need a pump, as the window re-index would not fix a bad pump. You may want to have a talk with your service dept., if all they want to do is throw parts at the problem without trying to find the correct solution. Let them know you will be taking your business elsewhere.

CC. I indexed the windows in my XLR this morning and the took the top down and up twice with no problems and no messages. Hopefully this may have fixed my problem. Called the dealer and had him put the pump on hold for a week to see if the problem has been fixed permanently.

Thanks also to Fireduck69 for your response. That may have been the answer too.

Tigerman

 

[Tigerman]

Thanks Cubby558. I will take it back to the dealer next week and have them do a relearn. How would you know that a sensor has gone bad? Can they test this?

Tigerman

 

[ccclarke]

Nice to hear it's working properly (thus far) and your wallet hasn't been lightened.

Please consider this site for alternate (upgraded) parts should you need them: Cadillac Convertible Top Hydraulic Cylinder Rebuild/Upgade Service - Top Hydraulics, Inc.

CC