Top problem

[monepit]

This morning while putting the top up, as the front header pulled tight I heard a pop above my head and now the front header won't release. Any idea what might have snapped and how I can release the top manually on the front to find out?

 

[David_B]

Look in your manual for how to manually manipulate the top. There's a wrench you put in a bolt in the middle of the roof and turn. It's under a cover.

Hopefully that snap wasn't the release wire that goes to the latches on the sides of the top, that sounds not fun to fix.

 

[monepit]

Going to start diagnosing tonight. Can anyone tell me does the front header release first or the rear flip up hatch lift first in the process?

 

[WAM]

Windows go down first then the trunk lid opens.

I have watched videos of the roof being lowered and raised on YouTube. Search Cadillac XLR and there will be some that demo the top.

Try this one, at about the half way point:

https://youtu.be/xFDAKgxSycg

 

[monepit]

Got home tonight ready to dig in. Got a tool to release the top manually. Released the front hit the button and all worked well. Then I thought I would try it. Put it back up and it worked fine. Put it up and down several times. Worked fine every time. I don't know what the pop was or why it didn't release after that, but everything is working fine now. I guess that beats the alternative.

 

[David_B]

Might have been sticking when you heard the pop, and it snapped free.

I'm not sure how to or if you need to lube anything in the top release.

 

[LAKER]

My 2008 XLR has been in the Cadillac Dealer since August 5th with a roof that does not open or close

They have changed a actuator, then a motherboard, then (2) hydraulic lines, and
now they are talking about replacing the hydraulic pump. The roof at first would not
open or close. Now after replacing all of the above it just will not latch? Getting
very frustrated and missing prime convertible time. Not looking forward to this bill,
but I am looking forward (hopefully) getting the car back.

 

[David_B]

This is starting to sound like they are just replacing parts hoping to accidentally fix the problem.

Never a good way to fix things. Hope I'm wrong.

They have changed a actuator, then a motherboard, then (2) hydraulic lines, and
now they are talking about replacing the hydraulic pump. The roof at first would not
open or close. Now after replacing all of the above it just will not latch? Getting
very frustrated and missing prime convertible time. Not looking forward to this bill,
but I am looking forward (hopefully) getting the car back.

 

[pure zen]

OMG,,,,August 5th,,,

This is starting to sound like they are just replacing parts hoping to accidentally fix the problem.

Never a good way to fix things. Hope I'm wrong.

My thoughts exactly. Sounds like the tech is 'guessing' and just throwing parts at the problem. I'd mention to the shop,,,, I'm not paying for 'guess work'!

 

[David_B]

I would ask if they have done a couple of Folding Top Learn Procedures.

 

[LAKER]

I would ask if they have done a couple of Folding Top Learn Procedures.

Is there such a thing as "Folding Top Learn Procedures" or am I so desperate that I will believe anything?

 

[nerkpowers]

This is a post by CCClarke from another thread that explains what the Re-learn does. The top has multiple sensors that check its position and if a sensor is bad or something else is keeping the top from folding, it will not go to the next step in the operation, which is to protect itself from damage. You would need a TechII analyzer to be able to do this, which is why a dealer would usually do this.

There are three sensors. The Rear Tonneau sensor is located on the drivers side scissors rear deck lid lifting mechanism. The Front Tonneau sensor is located behind the seats on the front/trunk wall. And the Folding Top sensor is located behind the driver's head inside the sail panel under the vinyl cover. Chances are, a sensor is either going bad or has changed in value enough to not match the values stored in the Folding Top Control module. A re-learn at the dealer looks at the sensor values over the course of a complete cycle, and stores them in the FTC module's memory. Sometimes a re-learn fixes the problem, otherwise you may need a sensor(s) replaced.

CCC

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stella]

They have changed a actuator, then a motherboard, then (2) hydraulic lines, and
now they are talking about replacing the hydraulic pump. The roof at first would not
open or close. Now after replacing all of the above it just will not latch? Getting
very frustrated and missing prime convertible time. Not looking forward to this bill,
but I am looking forward (hopefully) getting the car back.

I don't know if the header actuator is hydraulic or electric? But if your top goes up and down your pump is working. I wonder if the actuator is hydraulic and those are the two hydraulic lines they replaced with the actuator. Two things one if it's hydraulic I would think they need to purge the lines to get air pockets out. If it's electrical did they hook up the power lines going to it. Did they adjust the latch mechanism. They should be able to diagnose all of this with a tech2. And you should do a learn procedure after working on the top

 

[V Happy]

Laker
I would ask the dealer if they did a relearn on the top after working on it. It would be better if you could ask the technician personally to see his response. If they look at you like they don't know what you are talking about I would take the car out of there. No one is pulling your leg,there is a relearn procedure with a tech 2 . I have a tech 2 and have preformed a top relearn and cured a few top ailments.
V Happy

 

[ccclarke]

I don't know if the header actuator is hydraulic or electric? But if your top goes up and down your pump is working. I wonder if the actuator is hydraulic and those are the two hydraulic lines they replaced with the actuator. Two things one if it's hydraulic I would think they need to purge the lines to get air pockets out. If it's electrical did they hook up the power lines going to it. Did they adjust the latch mechanism. They should be able to diagnose all of this with a tech2. And you should do a learn procedure after working on the top

The Header Latch is hydraulically-operated. It has a Latch/Unlatch switch to identify it's position/status to the FTC module.


The question I would ask is if the work is being performed by a Cadillac dealership's XLR certified technician or some knucklehead throwing parts at the problem while training with the owner's money? Pump replacement will be around $2k, so this is a valid question to ask the Service Manager, not the Service Writer/Adviser.

CC


(This ought to be it's own thread, rather than piggy-backed on Moneypit's.)

 

[LAKER]

Top Won't Shut or Open

The Header Latch is hydraulically-operated. It has a Latch/Unlatch switch to identify it's position/status to the FTC module.


The question I would ask is if the work is being performed by a Cadillac dealership's XLR certified technician or some knucklehead throwing parts at the problem while training with the owner's money? Pump replacement will be around $2k, so this is a valid question to ask the Service Manager, not the Service Writer/Adviser.

CC


(This ought to be it's own thread, rather than piggy-backed on Moneypit's.)

I would like to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and experience. This is a great forum which I am certainly
brand new to and not sure how to set up a thread properly. It's nice hearing from so many that are passionate and
knowledgeable about their XLR's.

I was called today... The car is "fixed". It would appear the hydraulic pump was bad or failing. Something to do with
the bladder. I have not met with them yet. To whomever asked about the actuator is was hydraulic. After what they
said was discounting; , 10% over all and some labor not counted the bill is $4,500. That is $1,600 labor and $2,900
parts.

Just wondering if a letter detailing the "trouble shooting" to GM would maybe offset some of this cost? Any idea ideas
of who I should contact? Am I just dreaming!!!

Again thank you. I will be asking the techs tomorrow about the Learn Program.

 

[LAKER]

They for sure do not have a XLR Certified Technician. That was my first mistake, but I don't know
how easy it is to find a dealership that has.

 

[David_B]

Get every bad party they took out.

Take some pictures for us, I wonder if you have water standing in the cubby the pump is in? That's a somewhat common problem on XLRs with bad trunk seals.

You need to get that fixed too if it's still leaking and that caused the problem.

 

[ccclarke]

It would appear you paid for their technician's education. I would ask the Service Manager to refund every part of the invoice that wasn't responsible for the problem.


There is no bladder in the folding top system. The only bladders in the car are pneumatic and they reside in the seats for the adjustable lower lumbar support.


The MSRP for the hydraulic pump motor has dropped from more than $1680 to $1355. The discount price (online retailers, and what the dealer pays) runs about $1200; it used to be around $850, so the savings gap has narrowed considerably on these components. Look at the invoice to determine if you were overcharged for this part.

Make sure an O-Ring kit was installed. If it wasn't, take the car back and have them do it right. Anytime the hydraulic lines to the pump are disconnected, new O-Rings are required to be installed. The kit is cheap. A leak later on probably won't be.

The pump replacement labor can get a little pricey, but replacement shouldn't take over four hours. If the tech has never done it, it could take all day. (Another reason you save money with a certified XLR technician.) Call your local Cadillac dealerships and speak to the Service Manager and inquire if they have Certified XLR techs who have completed the specific XLR training. (All GM techs are certified is the usual answer when you speak to a Service Writer. It's not the same thing.)

Starting a new thread is easy; just press the "Start a New Thread" button at the top/left of the page when all the threads for a section are displayed. This keeps your thread easy to find rather than embedded in another thread, and helps other members learn what fixed a particular problem. Just make the thread title something relevant, (TOP RETRACTS AND BURSTS INTO FLAME) so it pops up during a search query; it's really helpful.

Read all the technical posts, (and there are quite a few now) you don't need to memorize them, just be familiar with the thread titles so you can refer to them later if a similar problem affects your car. A lot of us learned the hard way, and these lessons are waiting in there for you to learn (and save money) from.

CC

 

[Stella]

Sounds like the stealership struck again. I would get every part back that they replaced. You paid for them. And sounds like a lot too. I don't understand. If the top worked bit didn't latch at the header. Why would the pump be culprit? If the top is moving pump is pumping fluid. I would definately b having a meeting with the service manager.
Funny my wife goes in for service they try selling her the world and everything needs to get serviced. Trans,radiator,brakes are getting bad, need tires soon,this and that. Little do they know her husband does it for free!