Help! Trunk lid want close and top problem

[Remi]

Hi guys!

I have some problems with my 2005 XLR. First of all I had learned the hard way about water leak into the trunk.. That means that I had to buy new folding top modul, suspension control modul and (I got a nice used one) folding top pump. I have a Tech 2 and I have relearned the folding top procedure. No errors, learning process completed..
Problem is, when I push the button to make the top down procedure the windows go down, front tonneau cover raises and the trunk lid opens. Then I have to release the top switch and press it again to get the next top down procedure to follow. I can hear the pump is working before I release the button. Next it will do is putting the top down in the trunk and I will have to release the button again. Still hear the pump is trying hard to get to the next step but it is like it doesn't get the right message to do it. The third time I push the button it will push forward the rear tonneau cover and I will have to release the button again. The fourth time the button is depressed the front tonneau cover will go down and finally the fifth time the trunk lid will go down and I hear the "pling" of cycle completed. Between all this cycles I hear the pump is trying, but I need to release/press the top switch to make it continue with putting the top down.
The same procedure to get the top back up again....Puhhh, did you follow me?
Also, the trunk want close with the switch on the trunk lid, so that has to be put down manually when not operating the top. And that is not good thing for the pump.
I have a 2004 XLR here that the top is working perfect on and I have compared the "counts" on the different cycles and it's just a few counts difference, but maybe enough to make the problems????
Any ideas?

Best regards

Remi

 

[ccclarke]

Focus on the Front Tonneau Position sensor. If it's out of calibration, you'll get the symptoms you've described. There are other posts very similar to yours describing how to record the data and compare it to subsequent scans. A Re-learn will only prolong the problem if the sensor is going bad.

CC

 

[Remi]

Thanks alot CC!

Hmmm, couldn't find any post's with the data for the different sensors (I guess my wife's right about me and my talent of finding stuff )
Is there any numbers (counts) it's supposed to have for each sensor/switch and is it adjustable somehow? I loosened the screw and turned a little on the front tonneau sensor and it fell by a few counts.
I'm sorry to bother you with the same questions as other have posted.
I live in Norway and I have no dealer to help me with this and I'm very thankful for any help I can get from you guys!.
By the way, in 2004 a XLR cost $200.000 here in Norway. They sold 1....
I guess there is about 5 -7 XLR's in Norway now and a 2004-05 should now cost around $40.000 with (the crazy) Norwegian taxes.
I have two, one 2004 and one 2005.

Remi

 

[Remi]

"...... Opened my eyes and found a thread about this issue.
But, I ask another (sure a stupid) question.: the readings of front tonneau position sensor says 95 counts (top closed) and on my 2004 (with a perfect working top) it says 98 counts. Could this sensor be faulty even with "counts" that are so close to a working one or do you think it's ok and should just continue looking for other errors?

Remi

 

[ccclarke]

Remi,

Not all sensors are created equal. The part numbers for them may be indentical, but at the "zero" position, you'll see they can vary in value. This is as it should be for sensors that are working normally.

When the Re-learn command is initiated with your Tech 2, (this assumes the sensors and switches are good) the sensor values in the Folding Top raised and lowered positions are recorded into memory stored within the Folding Top Control module. Each sensor value, for example "95" in your case has a small allowable window that the Folding Top recognizes as good. Each time you move the top, the actual (measured) value is compared to the recorded (stored) value in the FTC module. If the measured values vary outside of the nominal window, a flag is set in the FTC module and the operation halts. (This is why the last operation to complete is often the one that has the bad sensor.) Measured values for the sensors (they're just potentiometers) can vary due to age or outright failure, (wipers making intermittent, poor, or no contact) or by the sensors becoming physically loose or misaligned from their original position. Either condition will change the count value and ruin your whole day.

When sensors are replaced, they should be bonded with epoxy on a stationary edge of the sensor to the attachment point. In reality, there's not much keeping them secure, just one fastener and a small locating pin; the epoxy is merely a backup to help hold them in place. This is weak from a mechanical design standpoint, but it is what it is.

Always check the position sensors for tightness when you suspect one is going bad. You can check them electrically by removing and electrically disconnecting them to check their values using an ohmmeter and turning the pivot pin. The resistance should be linear as the pin (wiper) is rotated. If you're unsure how potentiometers operate Google is your friend.

If you find a bad sensor, install a replacement and perform a Re-learn, and you should be good to go! They're cheaper on GM parts websites like gmpartsdirect.com.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask, someone here will be happy to help out.

CC

 

[Remi]

I really appreciate your effort to help me!!
Do you think it's a good idea to replace all sensors and relearn again? What about trunklid that doesn't close with the switch inside the lid, (I have replaced it with a workin' one so I know it's ok), can it be folding top sensors making the problem?

Remi

 

[ccclarke]

Again, the Front Tonneau sensor is the first one I would concentrate my efforts on as it can reproduce all the symptoms you're described. I wouldn't replace all the sensors at once though.

CC

 

[Remi]

Hi again!

I did try to swap the front tonneau sensor from my 2004 ( the one with roof working perfectly) with the one in 2005 modell. No change.
The Tech 2 reads almost the same "counts" with the front tonneau cover, both down and up position.
I know it's difficult to try to repair a car through internet, but i appreciate any tip you can come up with.

BTW... This is the best forum of XLR's, both in layout and respons from other users!!!!
Proud to be a member!

Best Norwegian regards

Remi Hansen

 

[ccclarke]

Okay,

Just so I understand, when you wrote "I did try to swap the front tonneau sensor . . . " As Yoda says, "There is no try, only do."

Did you try to swap (which means you didn't swap it out) or did you actually swap it out? The result suggests you did, but like you say, troubleshooting over the internet is problematic at best, so communication is key.

1) Did you do a re-learn after the swap?
2) Post a closed and open status (counts and position) of all switches and sensors and I'll check it out. The Top Position Sensor might be the next usual suspect.

In the future, always keep a list of all status for both positions when the Folding Top is working properly. That way, when something goes wrong, you only need to compare the old data with the new to get a good idea of what's malfunctioning. Since you appear to have one car working, record it's results and compare with the other too.

CC

 

[Remi]

My bad English, confuse you.
I did swap them and no change. Didn't take no "relearn", All stages/cycles were ok.
will check all values over the weekend.

Remi

 

[Remi]

Hi CC!

Here are the "counts" that I read on the 2005 model, 2004 column on the right: Black car (with perfect operational top)

Roof in closed position Roof in "down" position

Front tonneau position : 95 ..................... in "up" position.....159 95 98 158 98
Front tonneau open ref. : 149 154 156 153
Front tonneau close ref. : 101 101 103 101
Rear tonneau position : 192 100 186 104
Rear tonneau open ref. : 187 187 181 182
Rear tonneau close ref. : 104 105 110 110
Folding top postion sensor : 207 47 205 40
Folding top open ref. : 50 51 42 42
Folding top close ref. : 204 203 203 203

Hope you understand my "Readings".

Remi

 

[hawkeye372]

Just today (Monday 3/9/15) after one of my doctors appointments I went to drop the top. It went all through the cycles till the behind the back seat cover went down. Then all of the sudden everything went wrong. I thought I was on a level part of the parking lot but after it didn't complete the cycle I just put the top back up.
I went to the gas station parking lot and tried it again. The same thing happened. So I put the top back up. Then I went to my 2 nid appointment tried it again. This time went down and completed the cycle.
This is what I'm talking about.

. I guess the foam got stuck and wouldn't let the larger piece go down. It looks like the left foam was longer then the right side. But If it keeps happening then I'll have to take the car in to see if one of the cylinoids went or is bad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pure zen]

Similar happening,,,

At the Cadillac Roadster Day car show in Scottsdale on Saturday, one XLR's top wouldn't go through the entire cycle and would just stop at about 1/2 way motion. Several tries, same situation. Finally it was noticed that a 'folding windshield sun shade' was obstructing the cycle in the trunk area and removed.....everything went fine after that.

Once, we had two ball caps sitting on the ledge behind the seats....same thing, top wouldn't go down when the caps slid into the top's folding cycle. I'm thinking this has happened to many XLR owners at one time? Obstructions will cause drop-top failures

 

[hawkeye372]

Yes the first try it looked like that was the problem. Because from the rearview mirror it looked like something like carpet was stuck. Then 2nd try the folding sunshade didn't go all the way to locked position. 3 rd try everything was ok


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[Remi]

CC.
I swapt the rear toneau sensor to see if I got rid of the top/trunk lid problem, but now the top want move at all.
Nothing happens when I push the button. No codes on Tech II. The only thing I see that has changed is the parameters of front/rear tonneau referance position by at least 20 "counts". in both open and closed positions.
Can these positions be adjusted somehow?

Remi

 

[ccclarke]

Ah, Remi, it's been a short five months since your last post. I hope you haven't been fighting this problem the entire time.

1) Since I'm not sure where you're at in the repair process, ensure all of the interlocks are closed, or nothing will happen with the top. You should get a DIC message though.
2) If the last thing you did was swap a front tonneau sensor, I'm assuming you swapped it from your other car?
3) If so, I recommend placing it back in the original vehicle and testing the sensor's functionality.
4) If you are swapping components between vehicles, I recommend buying one or two sensors and using those to troubleshoot with. The old adage, "If it works, don't mess with it applies."
5) With the windows in the closed position, do they lower to the fully open position when the Folding Top Control switch is depressed?
6) After installing the (suspect) sensor, did you perform a re-learn of the Folding Top?

CC

 

[Remi]

Thanks CC.

Yes, I swapt it from the other car, which is now gone (sold), so I can't redo that.
At some point it did raise the deck lid, unlachted the header and raised the front tonneau. Did not lift the roof. If I tried to manually lift the roof panel it reversed the operation and try to close the roof again, even if I still pushed the roof switch to the open position. And now nothing happens when I push the switch, so I can't even get to relearn section FTC..
Did see that the decklid latch switch says "deck closed" (on Tech 2) even when decklid is open. It isn't supposed to do that, is it?

Remi

 

[ccclarke]

Before I create a test plan, I need to verify the last repairs/troubleshooting you performed by answering the following:

1) List in order, the symptoms and actions you took as best you can. If you aren't keeping a detailed repair log, please start. These are invaluable if you stop work for a few days/weeks/months or if the problem returns later. Also, what is the current status (and condition Open/Closed) of the Folding Top data inputs as reported by the Tech 2?

2) What spare parts do you have available?


CC

 

[Remi]

Thank's so much CC!
I owe you some beers. I'll get in touch next time I'm in your neighborhood to pay my depts.
Had some progress yesterday.
As you may have seen in my earlier posts I couldn't close the decklid with the switch and had to put it down by hands. Also when I would take the top down I had to push the top switch numerous times to finish the cycle. Changed FTC modul, pump (good used one) front tonneau sensor (good used one) some months ago due to water in the trunk and just resently swaped the last 2 roof sensors with known (from another XLR I had) working ones.
After I changed the last sensors the top wouldn't pass on to the second step. Swap back you say?? I sold the other car.
The TECH 2 told me that the header latch switch was in the mid position and not unlatched as it supposed to and the deck lid latch switch was still marked as "deck unopened". Even though the deck lid was open.
Yesterday I noticed a small bend in the decklid latch house that made the lach pin (this may not be the correct english words for it) stuck at the end of it's travel and would not retrackt all the way and tell the FTC that the declid latch switch was open. After this was fixed the trunk switch worked as it should.
Now with a happy face and very optimistic I was hoping that also the problem with the top was history.
It started nice with the top going past step 2 and I did not even have to repush the top switch to get there.
But all good things comes to an end....
The next step with the rear tonneau that is supposed to extend, didn't happend, making the whole prossess (and the happy face) stop.
After some swearing.... and reading on the Tech 2, I see that it reads no rear tonneau status when it's supposed to say "rear tonneau closed".
But when I manually push the rear tonneau forward (with the bypass valve opened) I read open and mid but not closed on Tech 2.
This make me think that the rear tonneau sensor (that worked on the other car) has failed.
What's your thoughts?
Did you follow me on this Norwegian/English way of describing my problem?
..... and I will now order all 3 sensors new for spare. Do anyone know the part numbers on these ?

Remi

 

[ccclarke]

It sounds like you're moving forward Remi,

I've attached a few pages of info I threw together to help you progress. I know I've asked this before, but have you performed a re-learn procedure after installing new or swapped sensors? This is important as the FTC module will halt the process if the introduced sensors counts don't match with what it is stored in memory. When you perform a re-learn, the FTC module's memory is cleared and the new sensor counts are entered and saved during the completed open/close cycle. The enclosed table has several uses. Using it as a reference the next time you have a problem, (once this issue is resolved) will allow you to find the faulty sensor immediately by comparing values.

Once you install and successfully test a sensor, it is recommended to bond the sensor in place around the edges with epoxy, ensuring no epoxy fouls the shaft of the sensor. When a sensor loosens over time through normal wear and tear, it gives inaccurate position readings (counts) and the process may halt. It's a design flaw to only have one fastener retaining the sensor; it should have been secured against a shoulder if only one fastener was used to prevent it from rotating. Hence the epoxy.

You should be able to use either of these part numbers: 88956588 or 88956589 when ordering sensors.

Let us know how you progress as you get closer to the finish line.


CC