Help! Ignition cutting offf?

[BILLS_XLR]

Has anyone experienced momentary ignition cut-off while at a stop in gear ('06 V with K&N and E3s)? It happens very intermittently and it is momentary as if I were cutting the the ignition off and on with a switch. No lights and the tach does not drop when it happens. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[BILLS_XLR]

TTT

Bump..... Cadillac tech?????????

 

[cubby558]

Bill,
I'm trying to understand your question completely; am I reading this correctly?--the engine stops and starts on its own? Or do you have to restart it.

Have to taken the car in to the dealer to see if it is storing a code because of this situation. If it is 'throwing' a code, they should be able to determine what is wrong.

Has anyone experienced momentary ignition cut-off while at a stop in gear ('06 V with K&N and E3s)? It happens very intermittently and it is momentary as if I were cutting the the ignition off and on with a switch. No lights and the tach does not drop when it happens. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[mswaim]

I would think if it is truly "miss-firing" or losing ignition power, it should log a report via the OBD system.

 

[BILLS_XLR]

Cubby thanks for the reply. Sorry I wasn't more specific so here goes. I'm fully warmed up and come to a stop at a traffic light. I'm in automatic mode, selector in Drive, foot on brake waiting for the light to change. and the engine hiccups for less than a second. The engine does not stall completely as in stop running. But there is a momentary interuption which can be felt with a "jerk" as it unwinds against the motor mounts and then twists back again. Imagine a momentary on off switch connected to a light bulb where at rest the circuit was complete and depressing the button broke the circuit. Now plug it in or power it so the bulb is lit, then tap and release the button on the switch just fast and long enough to turn the bulb off for as short a time as possible. It can just be one hiccup at a time or several.

Bill,
I'm trying to understand your question completely; am I reading this correctly?--the engine stops and starts on its own? Or do you have to restart it.

Have to taken the car in to the dealer to see if it is storing a code because of this situation. If it is 'throwing' a code, they should be able to determine what is wrong.

 

[mswaim]

If it's that slight a time frame, it may not be enough deviation to fall out of the normal threshold and produce a report.

Neither of our XLR's experienced similar performance issues.

 

[cubby558]

As mswaim states, if it is that fast of a 'flutter' you probably won't get a code for something like that. My best guess would be possibly a dirty MAS (Mass Air Sensor) and or possibly moisture in your fuel.

I have never had this happen to the two XLR's I have owned, so my comments are a best guess in my opinion. Someone such as Cadillac Tech may have better information and or understanding of your situation.

Cubby thanks for the reply. Sorry I wasn't more specific so here goes. I'm fully warmed up and come to a stop at a traffic light. I'm in automatic mode, selector in Drive, foot on brake waiting for the light to change. and the engine hiccups for less than a second. The engine does not stall completely as in stop running. But there is a momentary interuption which can be felt with a "jerk" as it unwinds against the motor mounts and then twists back again. Imagine a momentary on off switch connected to a light bulb where at rest the circuit was complete and depressing the button broke the circuit. Now plug it in or power it so the bulb is lit, then tap and release the button on the switch just fast and long enough to turn the bulb off for as short a time as possible. It can just be one hiccup at a time or several.

 

[BILLS_XLR]

Cubby again thanks... I'll check the sensor and the connector and if that fails I'll just have to scan it. Happy New Year!!!!
Bill

As mswaim states, if it is that fast of a 'flutter' you probably won't get a code for something like that. My best guess would be possibly a dirty MAS (Mass Air Sensor) and or possibly moisture in your fuel.

I have never had this happen to the two XLR's I have owned, so my comments are a best guess in my opinion. Someone such as Cadillac Tech may have better information and or understanding of your situation.

 

[BILLS_XLR]

Cubby,
A $7.15 can of CRC MAF sensor cleaner and and 12 miles later it appears to be cured. It only hiccupped once (maybe learning the new values from the clean sensor) but this is a huge Improvement as it had been gradually been getting worse. THANKS!
Bill

 

[Cadillac Tech]

Document ID: 1896948 <HR>
#04-07-30-013B: Info - Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Use of an Excessively/Over-Oiled Aftermarket, Reusable Air Filter - (Feb 1, 2007)

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Subject:</TD><TD vAlign=top>Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Use of an Excessively/Over-Oiled Aftermarket, Reusable Air Filter</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Models:</TD><TD vAlign=top>2007 and Prior GM Cars and Light Duty Trucks</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2007 and Prior Saturn Models</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2003-2007 HUMMER H2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2006-2007 HUMMER H3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2005-2007 Saab 9-7X</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<HR>This bulletin is being revised to add models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013A (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).


<HR><TABLE border=1 width="95%"><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>DO THIS


</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>DON'T DO THIS


</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively/over- oiled air filter


</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>DO NOT repair MAF sensors under warranty if concerns result from the use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter may result in:

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Service Engine Soon (SES) light on</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over- oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with an OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
The use of an aftermarket reusable air filter DOES NOT void the vehicle's warranty.
If an aftermarket reusable air filter is used, technicians should inspect the MAF sensor element and the air induction hose for contamination of oil prior to making warranty repairs.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns (related to the MAF sensor being contaminated with oil) that are the result of the use of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
<TABLE width="95%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="80%" align=left>

​

</TD><TD width=42 align=middle></TD><TD width=167 align=middle>

​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

© 2010 General Motors. All rights reserved.
</FORM>

 

[mswaim]

How long have the K&N filters been on the car? Usually MAF filament fouling happens early in the filters life.

 

[BILLS_XLR]

Hey Bruce, long time no talk. Thanks for the TSB, the cleaning cleared up 99% of the miss. The Filters are about a thousand miles old and went in right out of the boxes with the factory oiling (more like a mist), I blotted the engine side of the elements with a paper towel to see if it would pick up any oil and I did not see any. Also the insides of the induction hoses before and after the MAF were bone dry so I don't think there was excessive or over oiling on the elements. In any case I'm going to clean again and if it's not perfect I'll replace the sensor. . BTW your reservation for a ride in the Cobra has been extended thru 2011. Happy New Year and thanks,
Bill

Document ID: 1896948 <HR>
#04-07-30-013B: Info - Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Use of an Excessively/Over-Oiled Aftermarket, Reusable Air Filter - (Feb 1, 2007)

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Subject:</TD><TD vAlign=top>Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Use of an Excessively/Over-Oiled Aftermarket, Reusable Air Filter</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Models:</TD><TD vAlign=top>2007 and Prior GM Cars and Light Duty Trucks</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2007 and Prior Saturn Models</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2003-2007 HUMMER H2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2006-2007 HUMMER H3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2005-2007 Saab 9-7X</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<HR>This bulletin is being revised to add models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013A (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).



<HR><TABLE border=1 width="95%"><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>DO THIS



</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>DON'T DO THIS



</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively/over- oiled air filter



</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>DO NOT repair MAF sensors under warranty if concerns result from the use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter.



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter may result in:

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Service Engine Soon (SES) light on</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over- oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with an OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
The use of an aftermarket reusable air filter DOES NOT void the vehicle's warranty.
If an aftermarket reusable air filter is used, technicians should inspect the MAF sensor element and the air induction hose for contamination of oil prior to making warranty repairs.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns (related to the MAF sensor being contaminated with oil) that are the result of the use of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
<TABLE width="95%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="80%" align=left>

​

</TD><TD width=42 align=middle></TD><TD width=167 align=middle>

​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

© 2010 General Motors. All rights reserved.
</FORM>

 

[cubby558]

Bill,

Glad that seemed to help. Hope that is what was wrong. I had the K&N's on my '04 base model and the first thing I did was clean the filters (from the factory) and re apply a very minimal amount of oil. Never had any problems and a buddy now owns the car, he hasn't had a problem either.

Happy New Year!!

Cubby,
A $7.15 can of CRC MAF sensor cleaner and and 12 miles later it appears to be cured. It only hiccupped once (maybe learning the new values from the clean sensor) but this is a huge Improvement as it had been gradually been getting worse. THANKS!
Bill

 

[Cadillac Tech]

Hey Bruce, long time no talk. Thanks for the TSB, the cleaning cleared up 99% of the miss. The Filters are about a thousand miles old and went in right out of the boxes with the factory oiling (more like a mist), I blotted the engine side of the elements with a paper towel to see if it would pick up any oil and I did not see any. Also the insides of the induction hoses before and after the MAF were bone dry so I don't think there was excessive or over oiling on the elements. In any case I'm going to clean again and if it's not perfect I'll replace the sensor. . BTW your reservation for a ride in the Cobra has been extended thru 2011. Happy New Year and thanks,
Bill

Thanks for the extension... I've always LOVED the Cobras.
I found the TSB, wondered if it would take care of your condition.

 

[mswaim]

In all the years I've used oiled filters, I've never had one foul the MAF, but I have seen others that did once they were washed and re-oiled. Usually it is a case of, "a dab is good, so let's use two" that causes the fouling. I always let mine get nice and dirty before I wash them, and I always buy two (or four, as the case may be) so I can wash them, oil them and then let then rest wrapped in paper towels before they see use.

 

[Cadillac Tech]

In all the years I've used oiled filters, I've never had one foul the MAF, but I have seen others that did once they were washed and re-oiled. Usually it is a case of, "a dab is good, so let's use two" that causes the fouling. I always let mine get nice and dirty before I wash them, and I always buy two (or four, as the case may be) so I can wash them, oil them and then let then rest wrapped in paper towels before they see use.

Mark, I agree, the filters are fine out of the box, it's"over oiling" the filter that causes the problems. It is a great idea to have a spare filter ready to replace the dirty one.

 

[BILLS_XLR]

Problem (I mean Condition) Resolved

I finally replaced the MAF sensor with a JET Performance piece and I still had the misfire. Pulled codes today and got a "P0800" Engine misfire (which is pretty generic....looked further and found 3750 events for Cyl 2. New coil on order... I'll post the results for future reference. Anyone know of a list of covered parts under Federal Emissions Warranty?

 

[BILLS_XLR]

Bruce Help!

Replaced the #2 coil (driver side front cyl) with a new Delco and I still have the miss. What am I doing wrong here?????

 

[cubby558]

Bill,

As you stated 'P0800' has alot of differnet things that could be causing your problem. After reading thru most of it, one thing you might check or have checked is water intrusion in the heated oxygen snsor connector. (HO2S) If you have service manuals, there is information on the sensors on page P-10 and P-11 in the cautions and notices. Hope this helps.

Replaced the #2 coil (driver side front cyl) with a new Delco and I still have the miss. What am I doing wrong here?????

 

[Cadillac Tech]

Do you mean P0300? There isn't a P0800 diagnostic code.
Is the engine misfiring all of the time? Can you view the misfires while it's running? You may have a fuel injector that is causing the misfire or even a valve spring.