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REPEAT: 2008 Cadillac XLR Conundrum

Rob

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OK....I deleted the original thread, because I had the VINs screwed up on the 2008 Cadillac XLRs - both serial# 1441.

Here is the link to both XLRs in the Registry:

Cadillac XLR Net | Cadillac XLR Registry | 2007 Cadillac XLR, Serial #1260
BUILD DATE: 12/2007
VIN: 1G6YV36A285661441

Cadillac XLR Net | Cadillac XLR Registry | 2008 Cadillac XLR, Serial #1441
BUILD DATE: 05/2008
VIN: 1G6YV36AX85601441

If you search both VINs on Carfax.com, both VINs come back as a 2008 Cadillac XLR.

So back to my original question....how can this be?
 
Looking at this, I'm a little suspect of the Liquid Amethyst 08. According to production #'s, there were only 9 made. Perhaps this was a display car for Cadillac and then sold off, hence the X in the VIN. But I would also think the ending VIN to be rather low, i.e. 000XX. The two vehicles were built six months apart from one another, and with only 1500+ 2008 being built, the White Alpine with the 1441 makes sense corresponding to the build date. Maybe calling the NCM and seeing if they have build sheet data onn the VIN will shed some light on this.

Rob, Looking at his again, the VIN's are different by more than just the 'X'-- first one 85661441, second one--85601441, which really makes me suspect something is amiss with the Liquid Amethyst.


OK....I deleted the original thread, because I had the VINs screwed up on the 2008 Cadillac XLRs - both serial# 1441.

Here is the link to both XLRs in the Registry:

Cadillac XLR Net | Cadillac XLR Registry | 2008 Cadillac XLR, Serial #1441
BUILD DATE: 12/2007
VIN: 1G6YV36A285661441

Cadillac XLR Net | Cadillac XLR Registry | 2008 Cadillac XLR, Serial #1441
BUILD DATE: 05/2008
VIN: 1G6YV36AX85601441

If you search both VINs on Carfax.com, both VINs come back as a 2008 Cadillac XLR.

So back to my original question....how can this be?
 
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I googled both VIN's & they seem "real" - there's a picture of the door sticker with vehicle load info showing the VIN for the white one, & the liquid amethyst one comes up on a US Treasury auction site (& it was TRASHED) - I would assume they'd get the VIN right. But, given that it was in a Treasury auction a couple of years ago & has no serpentine belt + water damage, etc., maybe it doesn't have a legit VIN.

Beyond that, no idea on how that happened.
 
Info from the Auction Site that handled the U.S. Treasury Sale:

Current Bid:
USD $23,555.00
# of Bids
62

Closed


Description
Photos
Bidding History


<!--Description
-->

SS2011110560001401007
1 EA
2008 Cadillac XLR Roadster: Platinum Edition, Purple/Gray Exterior, Gray Leather Interior, Hideaway Hardtop Convertible, 4.6L V8, Automatic Transmission, AM/FM/CD, Memory Seat, Navigation System, Traction Control, Dual A/C, Fog Lamps, Power Mirrors, Power Trunk, Heated Seats, Parking Distance Control, Alloy Wheels, On‑Star, Woodgrain Interior, Odometer Reads: 79,223, VIN: 1G6YV36A285661441
Known Defects: Not Drivable, No Serpentine Belt, Chipped Windshield, Water Damaged Upholstery, Multiple Scrapes and Scratches, AWD Service Light Illuminated, Interior Trim Panels Broken, Dead Battery, Front Bumper Broken
Storage Vendor: Bel Air Auto Auction - Bel Air, MD
Preview Site List - Mar 27 2012 - V2
All lots and bidders are subject to Agency Approval, even if they are being sold "No Reserve"!
No items will be shipped; shipping is at the responsibility of the winning bidder.
Winning bidders, who pay in full, will be notified by VSE Corporation when their title document (SF-97) has been signed by the Treasury Department and their vehicle is ready for pick up. It will be AT LEAST A WEEK before the vehicle is ready for pick up.

Being they couldn't get the color combination correct, and kind of referring the vehicle is all wheel drive, leads me to believe they could have gotten the VIN # wrong as well.


Being it was a seized vehicle, perhaps the Treasury Dept. created a salvage title for it, if the original wasn't available.

At any rate, by the sounds of everything, couldn't have been worth the 23,555.00 paid in my opinion!





 
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strange things can happen.....

The person who bought that XLR from the Treasury auction,,,spent a boatload of $$ for a P O S car, imo.


Strange things can happen with VIN#,,,,,,some totals get washed clean again (which shouldn't happen)


I don't even want to tell you the story of a Viper Coupe I bought......VIN# nightmare city
pat.gif
 
The 9th spot in the VIN is a check digit and both are correct for the rest of the VIN. Carfax may simply decode the VIN to get the model and not look to see if it is a real VIN.

I question the validity if the 661441 and therefore the 2 check digit that goes with it. My 2008 VIN ends in 600690. There simply was not enough cars made to get to 61441 where there were enough to get to 01441. Has anyone ever seen a VIN where the 12th digit was anything other than a 0?

My car was built in NOV2007. DEC2007 on the sticker. The beginning of 2008 seems to be somewhere around the 800 number. 1441 could not have been made in 2007.

The quantity of the color, as Cubby points out, also raises question. All this raises question about the accuracy of the one car. A single typo could not be at fault since the check digit matches.

What is the real answer? Who knows? If it were my call I would not include the car 661441 in the registry until the VIN could be confirmed.
661441
 
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General question

Where do the cars that are provided to auto journalist to test drive, flog and abuse come from? The cars that are used for commercials and photo ops? Are they randomly pulled from the production line, or do they make a limited number just for this purpose? Would they be assigned a unique serial number? What eventually becomes of these cars? If they are put back on the road how would the buying public know if the car began its life being whipped by a journalist?
 
Where do the cars that are provided to auto journalist to test drive, flog and abuse come from? The cars that are used for commercials and photo ops? Are they randomly pulled from the production line, or do they make a limited number just for this purpose? Would they be assigned a unique serial number? What eventually becomes of these cars? If they are put back on the road how would the buying public know if the car began its life being whipped by a journalist?

I can answer part of that question - at least for a XLR, if it was used by GM for a show car (or perhaps photo ops/commercials), it (1) has a code for that on the build sheet, & (2) the original invoice will show it was delivered to GM instead of a dealer. If you get the "view vehicle build" part of the service records, it will have the code "ZR6 - SHOW VEHICLE." It's on the build sheet so the plant knows to do their best work when assembling it, if it is to be a show car (as opposed to being test driven by the press). There's nothing different about the VIN, however.

Learned all of this from our dealer when we got the V (used), & it is backed up by the paperwork that the car was built & used as some sort of GM show car. It was shipped to auction with 40 miles on it when GM was done, which apparently is the typical mileage. I don't know what all gets done differently when the build sheet has a show car code, but people have told us the paint looks like it has an extra layer of clear coat. I had no idea how manufacturers did any of that so it was fascinating to learn!

We also bought a STS that was used in a local new car show (mini-local downscale SEMA). It was originally delivered to the dealer, then the dealer transferred title back to GM for purposes of putting it in the show, & when GM was done title was transferred back to the dealer. That weird series of transactions meant we could buy it as a new car OR as a CPO. I don't think there's any way you could find out something like that happened unless the dealer told you - Carfax would just show a title change, not who it went to. I didn't even mention that when I sold it because there was no documentation of it. (by the way, getting a show car that way is not as cool as it sounds, as it was wiped down nonstop at the show so the clear coat was completely scratched up & trashed!)

I also know that when GM has "V Performance Academies" where you can go learn about & track their car, & tear it up instead of your own, they refurbish the car & sell it to a GM employee. Or at least that is what they told us when we asked. I've seen those cars for sale by dealers later & they come with NO power train warranty no matter age or miles.

My guess would be a similar thing happens with cars the media gets to drive, i.e., if the drive is set up through GM instead of a dealer, the invoice probably shows the car was delivered to GM and then the car is transferred to a GM employee, executive or otherwise. That's the only way you might know the car was "whipped by a journalist," as opposed to just being whipped by a prior owner (or a dealership employee)!
 
I can answer part of that question - at least for a XLR, if it was used by GM for a show car (or perhaps photo ops/commercials), it (1) has a code for that on the build sheet, & (2) the original invoice will show it was delivered to GM instead of a dealer. If you get the "view vehicle build" part of the service records, it will have the code "ZR6 - SHOW VEHICLE." It's on the build sheet so the plant knows to do their best work when assembling it, if it is to be a show car (as opposed to being test driven by the press). There's nothing different about the VIN, however.

Learned all of this from our dealer when we got the V (used), & it is backed up by the paperwork that the car was built & used as some sort of GM show car. It was shipped to auction with 40 miles on it when GM was done, which apparently is the typical mileage. I don't know what all gets done differently when the build sheet has a show car code, but people have told us the paint looks like it has an extra layer of clear coat. I had no idea how manufacturers did any of that so it was fascinating to learn!

We also bought a STS that was used in a local new car show (mini-local downscale SEMA). It was originally delivered to the dealer, then the dealer transferred title back to GM for purposes of putting it in the show, & when GM was done title was transferred back to the dealer. That weird series of transactions meant we could buy it as a new car OR as a CPO. I don't think there's any way you could find out something like that happened unless the dealer told you - Carfax would just show a title change, not who it went to. I didn't even mention that when I sold it because there was no documentation of it. (by the way, getting a show car that way is not as cool as it sounds, as it was wiped down nonstop at the show so the clear coat was completely scratched up & trashed!)

I also know that when GM has "V Performance Academies" where you can go learn about & track their car, & tear it up instead of your own, they refurbish the car & sell it to a GM employee. Or at least that is what they told us when we asked. I've seen those cars for sale by dealers later & they come with NO power train warranty no matter age or miles.

My guess would be a similar thing happens with cars the media gets to drive, i.e., if the drive is set up through GM instead of a dealer, the invoice probably shows the car was delivered to GM and then the car is transferred to a GM employee, executive or otherwise. That's the only way you might know the car was "whipped by a journalist," as opposed to just being whipped by a prior owner (or a dealership employee)!


Great information !!

Thank you
 
Well that certainly puts a different spin on things. The 661441 sticker also appears a little different with the brushed metal look in addition to the wording differences. I am interested to hear the rest of the story why the big jump in numbers for this one car and the unique number format.

Here is my sticker, also from 12/07. 2013-04-0513-22-542695.jpg My wording and VIN format is the same as the white car.

I wonder what the actual VIN plate looks like and how many buttons are on the steering wheel.

Considering the car was seized by the Treasury Dept. the owner may have been a bit shady. Could this car have been stolen in its past?

UPDATE: After a little digging I've found a number of vendors online that print these stickers. They do not always get the wording correct for the model year nor the finish. Maybe this sticker was replaced during a repaint? This could explain the rare color and incorrect sticker, but not the VIN format.
GMOriginal.gif
An example from one of the websites.
 
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Unfortunately, the issue with the XLR in question has been solved. I asked Sara - the owner of the Liquid Amethyst XLR to send me a photo of the build sticker from under the rear compartment. The build sticker - assuming it hasn't been tampered with - has the correct VIN. It's #1260 - which is inline with the car's build date shown on the build tag on the inside of the door.

Now I'm curious how this VIN 1441 came into existence...

Cadillac XLR Net | Cadillac XLR Registry | 2008 Cadillac XLR, Serial #1441
 
And running Google search on the correct VIN 1G6YV36A875601260 - brings up nothing.
 
Unfortunately, the issue with the XLR in question has been solved. I asked Sara - the owner of the Liquid Amethyst XLR to send me a photo of the build sticker from under the rear compartment. The build sticker - assuming it hasn't been tampered with - has the correct VIN. It's #1260 - which is inline with the car's build date shown on the build tag on the inside of the door.

Now I'm curious how this VIN 1441 came into existence...

Cadillac XLR Net | Cadillac XLR Registry | 2008 Cadillac XLR, Serial #1441

Not so sure I agree with #1260 being built in DEC07. Much lower serial numbers were produced later. IMHO #1260 would have been built in either MAR or APR 2008. Also, to be built in DEC07 would mean the that 570+ cars were produced that month based on my VIN and build date.

Does the number on the build sticker agree with the stamped VIN on the dash?
 
I have heard a story of someone with a Shelby Cobra having the state yank their VIN & get issued their own "VIN" by the state based upon it being a "kit car." Obviously different facts here but I had no idea the government could intervene in VIN's like that, so maybe the trip through seizure & Treasury auction produced the same result.
 
Rob where is this under compartment that you are mentioning that there is a build sheet there? Just curious never knew that this information was on our XLR's
Thx Dan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"
 
Rob where is this under compartment that you are mentioning that there is a build sheet there? Just curious never knew that this information was on our XLR's
Thx Dan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan & Wendy
"05 GRAND DADDY"
It's a build sticker - I believe located under a storage compartment lid in the trunk.
 
The previous owner must have stolen it or never put it back. Or maybe when they traded it in the dealer threw it away. Cause mine is no where to b found.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
And running Google search on the correct VIN 1G6YV36A875601260 - brings up nothing.

Rob, as a former dealer, I can say that this VIN indicates that it's a 2007 model, not a 2008. The "Year" digit is the 8th from the end.

FWIW :dunno:

Tim
 
Rob, as a former dealer, I can say that this VIN indicates that it's a 2007 model, not a 2008. The "Year" digit is the 8th from the end.

FWIW :dunno:

Tim
Yep. The 1260 vin is a 2007. The 1441 VIN is a fabricated VIN that isn't legal. I checked with Betty Hardisan at the NCM. They don't have a build sheet for the 1441 VIN as that VIN actually indicates that the car is #61,441. Obviously, they didn't build 61K plus XLRs in 2008.
 

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