05 GRAND DADDY
Seasoned Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,728
- Location
- South Central PA (Littlestown)
- My XLR/V(s)
- 2005 Light Platinium Silver XLR
Roof panel separating on an '04
- Thread starter 2WheelWrench
- Start date
long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
The top skin is secured to the substructure with panel bond .A product that has been around and used since the early 80's in production autos and since the mid 70's in Formula one. The xlr has a full perimeter of bond all the way around the top skin plus an inner bond area.. The dirty corner he shows is because the outer skin does sit proud on the cornerof the inner frame so as to align with the back glass sections. The top latches DO NOT COME LOOSE> There are many fail safes that will not allow the top to partially latch. The switch in the latch is the last to stop the cycle. The latching of the top has nothing to do with the outer skin coming off. Since the bonding material has lasted much longer on the xlr than the problem that was discovered with the corvette , it is most likely a different reason. there may be many reasons for this. Most likely the heat that the cars are subject to In Florida has a lot to do with it. AS A black car In the sun in florida can get to temps of 140 degrees and higher, that gets close to the temp needed to release the bonding material.
The site administrator here I believe was looking into the location of the cars with known failures and also the years and color.
Most likely GM used the 3m product as the fusor and other may have been used. All have a very similar temp range. The mixing ratio is very critical in the application process as is the install working time .As this is all controlled at the factory and they know these limits I doubt that is the problem. Most of the exotic Italian cars that are also bonded require that they not have the paint repair baked but be air dried as the heat cycle In a paint booth can cause premature failure of bonded areas. Most likely just the heat is the problem as the cars I have seen are darker colors. if the bonding material releases of course the wind will get under it and cause wind noise and full release of the outer skin. If you stop your top in the open position you can look to see if the seal has any gaps or simply tap the roof panel to see if it is a solid sound or a drum type sound..
The reason the seal appears smooth is the underside of the top is smooth and their is a complete failure of the bond to the top. It could also be because of reside from the mold release used on the smc top panel not being fully cleaned and the heat causes the waxes to leach out of the smc material over time. The top is not taped on with double sided tape.
The site administrator here I believe was looking into the location of the cars with known failures and also the years and color.
Most likely GM used the 3m product as the fusor and other may have been used. All have a very similar temp range. The mixing ratio is very critical in the application process as is the install working time .As this is all controlled at the factory and they know these limits I doubt that is the problem. Most of the exotic Italian cars that are also bonded require that they not have the paint repair baked but be air dried as the heat cycle In a paint booth can cause premature failure of bonded areas. Most likely just the heat is the problem as the cars I have seen are darker colors. if the bonding material releases of course the wind will get under it and cause wind noise and full release of the outer skin. If you stop your top in the open position you can look to see if the seal has any gaps or simply tap the roof panel to see if it is a solid sound or a drum type sound..
The reason the seal appears smooth is the underside of the top is smooth and their is a complete failure of the bond to the top. It could also be because of reside from the mold release used on the smc top panel not being fully cleaned and the heat causes the waxes to leach out of the smc material over time. The top is not taped on with double sided tape.
IAN
Seasoned Member
HI LTS.
The main reason for me to wright this issue, is the elektra blue XlR roof cover, that bother me a lot, for that air getting in side on a 2008 XLR and it is not 2004-05 models, is this happening the same on all our XLR..... i am seriously wondering.
The air that getting in, shows that the retractable top is not air tight and that is something new for many of us is in it.
You have remain mute on this matter.
My concern is to know really what happening with this serious matter, and not necessary to get who is guilty, but just getting the why and how.
As far is the cover that do not seat properly on the rear glass remains for a not properly level roof, and that produce stress on the cover, due that one hinge is lower than the other one.
Its like an XLR with a bend frame, its not drivable, and the same of any construction, all building things must be on level and square.
As far is the latch, my experience tell me that it is possible, technictians are trained and they should be taken seriously, saying that it is not possible is not wise.
The people who had these sad roof failures, have said they have heard roads vibrations, or a strong volume of air getting in, or strong vibration on the rear interior view mirror…. were the latch is.
Regarding the bounds material used, we all agreed that GM is not using wall paper glue….. what ever how good it is…. the bound material has fail.
IAN
The main reason for me to wright this issue, is the elektra blue XlR roof cover, that bother me a lot, for that air getting in side on a 2008 XLR and it is not 2004-05 models, is this happening the same on all our XLR..... i am seriously wondering.
The air that getting in, shows that the retractable top is not air tight and that is something new for many of us is in it.
You have remain mute on this matter.
My concern is to know really what happening with this serious matter, and not necessary to get who is guilty, but just getting the why and how.
As far is the cover that do not seat properly on the rear glass remains for a not properly level roof, and that produce stress on the cover, due that one hinge is lower than the other one.
Its like an XLR with a bend frame, its not drivable, and the same of any construction, all building things must be on level and square.
As far is the latch, my experience tell me that it is possible, technictians are trained and they should be taken seriously, saying that it is not possible is not wise.
The people who had these sad roof failures, have said they have heard roads vibrations, or a strong volume of air getting in, or strong vibration on the rear interior view mirror…. were the latch is.
Regarding the bounds material used, we all agreed that GM is not using wall paper glue….. what ever how good it is…. the bound material has fail.
IAN
IAN
Seasoned Member
05 GRAND DADDY.
OOPS..... i mist to answert you.
On a search, i found a photo of a cover that has already been flying off the road, will eventually bring it up.
IAN
OOPS..... i mist to answert you.
On a search, i found a photo of a cover that has already been flying off the road, will eventually bring it up.
IAN
IAN
Seasoned Member
HI XLR Owners.
Its spring time and I have an appointment with my Cadillac dealer for an inspection of the car with an oil change, but also to get my XLR roof to be checked for a possibility of been defective with their dry adhesive of the cover for the retractable roof.
Have you had your checked…… I will keep you aware of result, since my XLR is a US made and from VERMON state I am curious to see what the dealer will do.
IAN
Its spring time and I have an appointment with my Cadillac dealer for an inspection of the car with an oil change, but also to get my XLR roof to be checked for a possibility of been defective with their dry adhesive of the cover for the retractable roof.
Have you had your checked…… I will keep you aware of result, since my XLR is a US made and from VERMON state I am curious to see what the dealer will do.
IAN
IAN
Seasoned Member
Had the retractable top check…... all joins are looking tights with no apperances of air coming in the car.
The service writer check for a recall from GM for US or canada XLR cars, the screen file shows empty.
It looks that GM waits that major accident will happened, since our cars represent a such small volume on the roads, the feel is that the roads security is not at a hi level of danger….what sadness is in it.
If you love hy speed make sure that the roof is in the trunk, or that the roof is bolt on its frame as our cars gets ages it needs to be ''secure'' , the GM glue is not sufficient with time.
IAN
The service writer check for a recall from GM for US or canada XLR cars, the screen file shows empty.
It looks that GM waits that major accident will happened, since our cars represent a such small volume on the roads, the feel is that the roads security is not at a hi level of danger….what sadness is in it.
If you love hy speed make sure that the roof is in the trunk, or that the roof is bolt on its frame as our cars gets ages it needs to be ''secure'' , the GM glue is not sufficient with time.
IAN
long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
since its an issue on dark cars only and in the hotter areas exposed to sun heat, It will be by a case by case. They will not issue a recall. They are letting the cars just die off as wrecked or flooded and will have fewer and fewer to deal with in the future. It is not an issue of time. Its an issue of heat cycles that is causing the failures. This is the same bonding materials used back in 93 forward on the saturns without any failures .the tops on those also were bolted and bonded and were metal that displaced the heat better. Just read all about it over on the corvette forums. In depth stories there.
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IAN
Seasoned Member
I have the feeling that GM would love to eliminate all the XLR with the same they did with their first electric car of the 80s, they are mostly wild money makers and just care for their share holder$$$$$.
The Cadillac buyers for them is just a side line, of course they says they care but in the reality the XLR owners knows that they are just for the not always real news….Trump would call it ''fake''.
There is a way to reinforce the light and dark colors XLR.... secure the top with stainless steel bolts and since the roof is made of fiber the installation could be easy, a well experience body man would know how to execute it without taking apart the roof.
Lets keep the XLR rolling.
IAN
The Cadillac buyers for them is just a side line, of course they says they care but in the reality the XLR owners knows that they are just for the not always real news….Trump would call it ''fake''.
There is a way to reinforce the light and dark colors XLR.... secure the top with stainless steel bolts and since the roof is made of fiber the installation could be easy, a well experience body man would know how to execute it without taking apart the roof.
Lets keep the XLR rolling.
IAN
Good luck on any issues with this car from Cadillac. I have been going back and forth with them over the roof separation issue. Mine completely separated! I received a $3,600.00+ quote to repair and they expect me to foot the bill for something that is a defect on the car. I will be fixing it (ouch) and then selling. Caddilac has lost my business, and most likely GM as well.
beaver_jd
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- 2006 Red XLR / 2007 XLR-V
Beaker, Out of curiosity what year is your car and how long have you owned it.
John F.
John F.
long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
Beaker .I find that strange that GM has paid for at leas ta dozen replacements but not yours. That estimate is also a good bit high at most any shop. A new top, labor and paint I think ran around 2K for the last invoice I saw . I do know if your car has a salvage title it will be a fight to get the top replaced.
IAN
Seasoned Member
Hi Beaker.
There is a program available for the loyal customers, called GOODWILL, if you are a fine customer and visiting regularly the Cadillac or Chevrolet dealer, that could be a way for you to try.
That program is 1/3 for each involved as the dealer, GM and the customer for the repairs involve.
If you sell it on emotion you could regret it as the XLR is a such great machine.
Good Luck
There is a program available for the loyal customers, called GOODWILL, if you are a fine customer and visiting regularly the Cadillac or Chevrolet dealer, that could be a way for you to try.
That program is 1/3 for each involved as the dealer, GM and the customer for the repairs involve.
If you sell it on emotion you could regret it as the XLR is a such great machine.
Good Luck
IAN
Seasoned Member
Hi Beaker
If the car has been since 2005 at the cadillac dealers, the service files wiil shows that the repairs and the inspections were done to the Cadillac dealers network.
Since the retractable top shows the possibility of been defective, put your self in the shoes of the dealer, he would be inclined to help his fine customers, if not….. why should he gets an open mind for a stranger that shows only when an emergency problem occur on his old XLR.
It takes two to tango.
Good Luck
IAN
If the car has been since 2005 at the cadillac dealers, the service files wiil shows that the repairs and the inspections were done to the Cadillac dealers network.
Since the retractable top shows the possibility of been defective, put your self in the shoes of the dealer, he would be inclined to help his fine customers, if not….. why should he gets an open mind for a stranger that shows only when an emergency problem occur on his old XLR.
It takes two to tango.
Good Luck
IAN
XLR_04
Member
someone with a VIN should be able to submit it to the NHTSA as documentation this PROVES it happens while the car is in motion ... that is what the NHTSA needs to issue a recall... is some proofYouTube
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Quite embarrassing for a $80K+ car.....and if in a car behind, following.....this UFO could kill somebody
When i purchase mine from the auction i always believe that it detached because of the minor door accident that it had. but i guess im not the only one.i was cruising in some road with lots of trees lots of space around and pheewwww i look my rear view mirror and the car behind me pass me and kept honking at me pointing to the back so i stop got out of the car and right away saw my roof gone i drove back and saw it on the side grass area i was lucky it landed on grass. but i do notice my panel 04 is different from the 06 07 08 09, mine its just plane and simple has no brackets or nothing to grab and drill holes to put zipties or anything for extra securing, so even though i put it back with some heavy duty glue its very tempting to just drill some holes and put counter sync screws an cover them with bondo and paint them since ill probably wont be able to find another one for sale with out somebody wanting 1000+ for one if it decides to fly away from me again
long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
did you grind all the bonding material away? I would think GM would get you a new one based on it coming off. Black in a hot climate is what is doing it
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