Bluetooth into the XLR

[XLR28]

I am considering a few options to add bluetooth connectivity to my XLR. After having it in my other vehichles, I am feeling a decided lack when I miss calls in the XLR due to not hearing the phone ring.

I have learned about a new product offered by CoSTAR Technologies at costartech.com called BlueSTAR. This device combines a Motorola HF850 bluetooth junction box and integrates it into our current On-Star equipment (microphone, speakers, rear-view mirror buttons) starting around $250. The XLR is not listed in the supported vehichle list, but third party email correspondence confirms that it works with the GMLAN-29bit product. It does come with a 60 day money back guarantee for those who like to try it before you buy it.

My original idea was to purchase the On-Star Module for the 09 which I am led to believe supports On-Star 8.0 or some such with Bluetooth capabilities. When the question was asked if it was backwards compatable the default answer was no, but I am a firm believer of if there is a will there is a way. My thought is that some wiring might have to be changed, or you have to add another - bluetooth receiver module - and so the On-Star module technically "isn't back-compatable". Unfortunately, while I have the service manual for my 2005 XLR, and with it the wiring schematics for any onstar modules, I don't have access to the drawings for the 09 with On-Star 8.0. Does anyone have these drawings that they will share?

Anyhow, was just wondering if anyone has tackled this problem already or if there were any other products out there to fill this chasm of a gap.

Ben

 

[Popbigguy]

Ben,,,,, Good to hear from you again!!! Now if you and the wife can come down for a dinner some nite?????

Now, just so that I don't hijack the tread..... Didn't the web site for that bluetooth device say that it plugged into the Onstar connector? I think it takes Onstar off line (?). Your car has Onstar doesn't it? I read some of the PDF files on the website (FAQ, instlation, app. etc). Sounds like it uses the Onstar buttons on the rear veiw mirror (hence knocks out Onstar), but said that their working on getting use of the steering wheel buttons.

Chad

Yea,,,,, Yea,,,,, Ruthie....... I know!!! Get them to come to SA!!!! So you can meet the new wife! I'll try.

 

[XLR28]

I figured that you would have to give up the On-Star service - which I have already done, so that part is not a deal breaker. I believe the steering wheel buttons were for cars that have On-Star buttons on the steering wheel, not just radio control buttons. When they speak of the 'talking mouth button' I think that in most applications of that button, it is used for muting the stereo - not voice recognition prompt, but hey if they can get it working more power to them.

About dinner, today's weather was awesome and we almost went for a ride to enjoy it, so getting the XLR out and down to Lincoln is getting more tempting by the day. We will be heading down to Marysville for Mother's Day weekend, maybe we can work something out on our way through or back.

We are looking to relocate here the first of July, so time is getting short. Lots of last minute preparations and packing. Selling a house, renting out a house, finding one to rent ourselves, finding her a job etc. etc. I am pretty much counting San Antonio out for us this time, but knowing how much fun I've had with you all in the past, you can look for us to attend in the future.

Ben

 

[Lola's Mom]

....I am pretty much counting San Antonio out for us this time, but knowing how much fun I've had with you all in the past, you can look for us to attend in the future.

Ben

Oh ... Ben .... Rendezvous just won't be the same without the Cubby & Ben Show
You know the ol' saying .... all work and no play ....

You still have a while - We'll hope you change your mind and surprise us .....

(I did NOT hijack this thread .... first )

 

[monepit]

Unless they have changed the XLR has a class II systen instead of the gm29 bit lan.

 

[ccclarke]

XLRs have both Class 2 and GMLAN. As a general rule, the high-speed GMLAN network is dedicated to the controllers that govern vehicle performance and critical safety systems where time matters. Class 2 is used for the systems that support comfort and security. The BCM (Body Control Module, located in the passenger footwell) is the gateway between both data networks.

CCC

 

[XLR28]

05 Service Manual Specs.

Here is what I have to offer from the 05 perspective:









































Sorry if they are a little hard to read. So I am looking for similar information on the OnStar system from an 09 if anyone has it handy.

Ben

 

[XLR28]

So I guess my idea is to get a new Vehicle Communication Interface Module (VCIM) for an 09 (and any additional pieces parts to make it function) and integrate it back into the car. This way you retain OnStar service (following successful reconfiguration with the new STID and ESN numbers that uniquely identify your car to OnStar) if you so desire and simultaneously gain the benefit of bluetooth integration of your personal cellular phone.

Ben

 

[richardyoo]

So I guess my idea is to get a new Vehicle Communication Interface Module (VCIM) for an 09 (and any additional pieces parts to make it function) and integrate it back into the car. This way you retain OnStar service (following successful reconfiguration with the new STID and ESN numbers that uniquely identify your car to OnStar) if you so desire and simultaneously gain the benefit of bluetooth integration of your personal cellular phone.

Ben

You could also buy a set of 09 books to see how things are set up differently than the 04-08's

 

[cubby558]

Ben,

I was also searching Bluetooth and found the same site. I sent off an email to find out info for my '06 V and planned to contact them next week. We are down on the Asheville trip. Now that you've started looking into it I know you will find out if it will work.

It would be great if you could make it down to RIVerwalk!!

 

[XLR28]

You could also buy a set of 09 books to see how things are set up differently than the 04-08's

If I went out and bought a book to answer all my questions, I would be a very poor individual - financially speaking. That I why I prefer putting the question to the forum. Maybe someone has an 09 and bought the service manual for themselves, and we all can benefit from their investment.

 

[richardyoo]

If I went out and bought a book to answer all my questions, I would be a very poor individual - financially speaking. That I why I prefer putting the question to the forum. Maybe someone has an 09 and bought the service manual for themselves, and we all can benefit from their investment.

You could also just walk into a dealership and ask to look at a set - they all have them.

 

[XLR28]

Well, someone has done it.

Here is an 07 GMC Sierra upgraded to 09 OnStar with a few add-ons required for the process.

The VICM, a bluetooth antenna (to synch with the phone), and a new set of steering wheel switches (for the 'talking mouth' OnStar button). It ran him about $300 for parts.

The challenges will be different for the XLR because it is a different car with different systems. But in my book, certainly doable. Just need to finish getting all the info together. Any help tracking down the 09 info would be great.

Ben

 

[XLR28]

You could also just walk into a dealership and ask to look at a set - they all have them.

Thanks for the idea Richard.<o></o>
<o></o>
I called my service rep at Huber Cadillac and she had the tech print out the schematics. I am looking into it now, and have requested a more extensive list of drawings.<o></o>
<o></o>
So far, my findings indicate that the new steering wheel controls that include the answer and hang-up buttons would require me to get a whole new steering wheel in order to get the controls. They switched over their design with the 08 XLR group, so if you have an 08 you are already a step ahead of me. The steering wheels are all very similar (but with different PN's) between the XLR, CTS, STS and SRX. The labeling of the center switch on the left of the wheel is different if you have the adaptive CC, so that may be part of it, but I am searching car-part.com for suitable replacements. The cadillac parts (wheel w/switches - 2585657, Air Bag - 25856638, and retaining nut - 11609658) are in the ball park of $1200.00, so I am looking into slightly used models for closer to $400.

<o></o>The 4 connectors to the 09 VCIM (PN 25990100) are wired the same as the 05.<o></o>
<o></o>
The inside rearview mirror has a different part number (PN 15911609). (the image on the left most button went from a white dot to a white phone - no functional difference however)<o></o>
<o></o>
I did not get the wiring info for the Body Control Module (PN 25879086) yet, nor have I figured out where the Bluetooth antenna (PN 15938939) is integrated into the car. My suspicions are through the BCM, but I have to get the documentation to be certain. <o></o>

I will post pictures when I get everything figured out.


Cadillac Tech,

Would a steering wheel from an 09 CTS work on an 05 XLR? The nut descriptions I have are below. My thoughts are that the threads on the Steering Column are the same, but the wheel is either flanged or not, so the nut would need to be replaced with the steering wheel.
05: NUT, STRG WHL (M14X1.5, 10THK, 27OD)(FLANGED)(8.917) PN:11609659
09: NUT, STRG WHL (M14X1.5, 10THK)(NON FLANGED)(6.518) PN:11609658
My other concern is the airbag itself, is there a specific impact force setting or something like that for the one in the XLR compared to one in a CTS, STS or SRX?

Thanks,
Ben

 

[richardyoo]

This is awesome... if you get it figured out, I'm totally doing this to my 06 XLR-V... this is getting exciting!

 

[tonypro99]

Thanks for the idea Richard.<O></O>
<O></O>
I called my service rep at Huber Cadillac and she had the tech print out the schematics. I am looking into it now, and have requested a more extensive list of drawings.<O></O>
<O></O>
So far, my findings indicate that the new steering wheel controls that include the answer and hang-up buttons would require me to get a whole new steering wheel in order to get the controls. They switched over their design with the 08 XLR group, so if you have an 08 you are already a step ahead of me. The steering wheels are all very similar (but with different PN's) between the XLR, CTS, STS and SRX. The labeling of the center switch on the left of the wheel is different if you have the adaptive CC, so that may be part of it, but I am searching car-part.com for suitable replacements. The cadillac parts (wheel w/switches - 2585657, Air Bag - 25856638, and retaining nut - 11609658) are in the ball park of $1200.00, so I am looking into slightly used models for closer to $400.

<O></O>The 4 connectors to the 09 VCIM (PN 25990100) are wired the same as the 05.<O></O>
<O></O>
The inside rearview mirror has a different part number (PN 15911609). (the image on the left most button went from a white dot to a white phone - no functional difference however)<O></O>
<O></O>
I did not get the wiring info for the Body Control Module (PN 25879086) yet, nor have I figured out where the Bluetooth antenna (PN 15938939) is integrated into the car. My suspicions are through the BCM, but I have to get the documentation to be certain. <O></O>

I will post pictures when I get everything figured out.


Cadillac Tech,

Would a steering wheel from an 09 CTS work on an 05 XLR? The nut descriptions I have are below. My thoughts are that the threads on the Steering Column are the same, but the wheel is either flanged or not, so the nut would need to be replaced with the steering wheel.
05: NUT, STRG WHL (M14X1.5, 10THK, 27OD)(FLANGED)(8.917) PN:11609659
09: NUT, STRG WHL (M14X1.5, 10THK)(NON FLANGED)(6.518) PN:11609658
My other concern is the airbag itself, is there a specific impact force setting or something like that for the one in the XLR compared to one in a CTS, STS or SRX?

Thanks,
Ben

HEY BEN

Where can one get a service manual like that?

 

[XLR28]

HEY BEN

Where can one get a service manual like that?

Tony,

I got mine from Helm Inc.

www.helminc.com

 

[XLR28]

Update... I have not gotten any more 09 info yet, but have had a chance to dig through my paper SM some more. Here is what I have found.

The steering wheel may not have to be replaced. There is one inconsistency however that I think may just be a typo. Like most steering wheel controls, it is a resistor network set up so that when you press a button the voltage drops to a specific value. The book says:~ "these values allow the CD changer or BCM to identify which switch has been pressed and that class 2 messages are sent from the CD Changer or BCM to the appropriate component to perform the desired function." The drawings indicate that Cruise Control information goes to the BCM and the audio controls including bluetooth feature buttons from the 09 go to the CD Changer.

The good news... all the audio buttons have the same resistance values and send the same signal. The voice button pressed and released still does nav voice commands, pressed and held for 2+ sec initiates OnStar bluetooth. And the down arrow is the same as the phone on the hook button which ends a call, rejects a call, or cancels an operation. (Note the functionality information of the 09 XLR SWC buttons came from the owners manual page 3-89.)

The not so good news... while the audio buttons align exactly the same between 05 and 09, the cruise control buttons have different resistance values and plug into different circuits on the BCM (05 - ckt 1039, pink, C4 pin E8; 09 - ckt 1399, green, C2 pin 58). This difference in pinning however is in the voltage supply and should not matter (05 it is ignition voltage, 09 it is RAP Relay Coil Supply Voltage). The different Resistance values and the fact that the 09 includes a Cruise Control Cancel button indicate that the BCM's function differently from an 05 to an 09. While this specific noted difference does not condemn the project to failure, it certainly makes me think of the ways it could fail, and the complexity that we would have to overcome to get it.

So here we are, if we don't need a new BCM, and all we need is the new VCIM, we don't need to swap our steering wheel controls to gain the new functionality. However if we need to swap our BCM, other issues may surface. (of note, when you replace the BCM you have to perform 3 steps: BCM Setup, BPP (Break Pedal Position) Sensor Calibration, and Program VIN. All of these are performed with the Tech 2 and little information is provided in the Service Manual other than a brief description of them. For instance, "The new BCM must be programmed with teh proper RPO codes. ...the tech 2 software will automatically prompt you with the RPO's available for the vehicle." This begs the question, If I put an '09 BCM in my '05, will it allow me to add RPO codes from the '09 like bluetooth, or will it recognize that it is in an 05 and not even have it as an option?

Well, just needed to vent a little and get it out there. This is a mix of facts and assumptions I tried to make it pretty clear which was which, but only time will tell.

Ben

 

[XLR28]

Yesterday I went to pickup more printouts and sat down with the XLR tech there at the dealership. We looked into the standard resistances in the Steering Wheel Controls (SWC) for all years of the XLR. The result from the computer is 04-07: 12.7kohm; 08-09:1.27kohm. So the chances of it being an administrative error are diminished, however when my car goes in later this month, he will measure the resistances and let me know what they are actually.

I have compared the connections on the Body Control Module (BCM) between the 05 and 09 XLRs and while they are very similar one circuit has changed pin locations - indicating that there are differences.

Mapping out the GMLAN schematics between the two, the Pins for the ACC module, Transmission Control Module, Electronic Suspension Control Module and Engine control module have all changed from the 05. Not to mention the addition of the Headlamp Control Module that is new with the articulated headlights in 2006. The VCIM, BCM and Electronic Brake Control Modules pins are the same. Overall no change in funtionality of the system meaning the wiring and lines of communication bewteen components. However, since the various modules are programed to coexist in each vehichle and work together. That is an aspect of the system that I harder to discern then a simple, "yep the wiring is all the same so you should be good to go." The logic and digital programming of everything is where any roadblocks are going to come up.

The Class 2 bus (CAN bus) layout is also similar with notable changes being the Exhaust Tail Pipe Flow Valve Control Module (for the V - RPO LC3), the pin of the HUD changes from 1 to 6, and the drivers door window switch pin changes due to the new switch styles. No real impact to the operation of the system or the implementing of the new VCIM to get bluetooth.

The new VCIM on the 09's has been moved from just forward of the right rear wheel well in the trunk, to behind the glove box mounted to the right side of the vehichle.

The Bluetooth antenna clips on directly to the new VCIM and has no other wiring or mounting required.

My overall assumptions are that it is doable as far as the hardware is concerned with one outstanding issue being the default resistance in the SWC. The only things to purchase in that case would be the new VCIM (PN 25990100) and the bluetooth antenna (PN 15938939). I believe the physical size of the VCIM has changed making the old mounting bracket not fit quite right (a little loosely I think), and the new mounting bracket is designed for a new location, so I would just add a little extra padding to make it secure. All the wires/coax/connectors will still work back in the trunk.

I am running out of literature on this. Pretty much the service manuals tell you the hardware side of things (like wiring and pinning of connectors) and give you a general overview of how the components function together. Nothing I have found in GM's documentation tells you what signals to expect as which terminals during normal operations (like Nissan's Service Manuals do) so I have a few things in mind but nothing too concrete from a manual.

Apart from the whole side of things regarding the new VCIM communicating with the BCM and the rest of the car correctly, the signal path to get from the user inputs via the SWC to the VCIM goes to the CD changer to get onto the Class 2 Bus. I need to inquire after the part numbers of the CD changers to see if they have changed from 05 to 09. I want to say they have not changed and the translation of the SWC signal to the Class 2 bus is the same, I just don't know what that translation is. My hope is that it is simply a pass through and the VCIM can listen in on the signals, but something tells me that is not the case. I think I will try to monitor the Class 2 bus line with my multimeter (via the Data Link Connector pins 2 - Class 2 Serial Data, and 4 - Ground) when I use the steering wheel controls and see what happens.

I do have more pictures and schematics that I will post at a later time - one being when this is either figured out or put to rest.

The long and short of it could be as simple as buying the new VCIM and Bluetooth Adapter and plugging them in to try it. If all the modules still play nicely with each other then we are good to go. If the steering wheel controls have changed their reference values or we need to start swapping out other modules, then it may not be worth the hastle and the best option would be to remove the EVIC in preference to an after market product like the BlueStar kits mentioned above.

Ben

 

[richardyoo]

You're getting serious about this, thats awesome!

So it looks like it may be "easier" to do the conversion on an 06+ XLR... hmm..

keep us informed on how it goes!