Gas Gauge Error

[XLR KEN]

HELP>

Recently my 05 XLR has been showing inaccurate gas gauge levels. It would appear that it is only moving between 1/4 and 3/4 levels, no matter how much fuel is in the tank.

Today, after having driven 330 miles since the last fill-up, the gauge was at 1/4 yet I put in over 15.5 gal. After it was filled (pump auto shut off), it only showed 3/4 full. This has been goning on for a few weeks.

It is either the fuel sender in the tank or the instrument cluster. I more strongly suspect the stepper motor in the cluster but don't know about it's actual construction or if software could be a factor.

Has anyone had a similar problem?

I searched the Tech Bulletins and only found three notices related to "Eradic Fuel Gauges" and none really gave me a hint of any related issue.
<O</O
TSB No.: 050604041 NHTSA No.: 10017536 TSB Date: ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

</st1:date>June 1, 2005 Date Added to File: <st1:date Year="2005" Day="9" Month="11">November 9, 2005</st1:date><O></O>
Failing Component: Fuel System, Other<O></O>
Summary: Erratic fuel gauge readings, fuel gauge reads empty when there is fuel in tank, diagnostic trouble code P0463 set, service fuel system message displayed.<O></O>
<O></O>
TSB No.: 3551 NHTSA No.: 10017276 TSB Date: <st1:date Year="1901" Day="1" Month="1"><st1:date Year="19" Day="1" Month="1" ls="trans">January 1, 19</st1:date>01</st1:date> Date Added to File: <st1:date Year="2005" Day="31" Month="10">October 31, 2005</st1:date><O></O>
Failing Component: Fuel System, Other Storage Fuel Gauge System<O></O>
Summary: Service vme - fuel gauge erratic or defaults<O></O>
<O></O>
TSB No.: 3474 NHTSA No.: 10014918 TSB Date: <st1:date Year="1901" Day="1" Month="1"><st1:date Year="19" Day="1" Month="1" ls="trans">January 1, 19</st1:date>01</st1:date> Date Added to File: <st1:date Year="2005" Day="11" Month="5" ls="trans">May 11, 2005</st1:date><O></O>
Failing Component: Fuel System, Other<O></O>
Summary: Erratic fuel gauge - service vme.<O></O>
<O></O>


HELP.............


XLR KEN

 

[richardyoo]

I do no have this problem... but....

Have you checked to see if the DIC reports correct range when the tank is full... if so, then you can assume the sender is fine. If the DIC also reports that the tank is only 3/4 to 1/4 full then you can assume its the sender.

Maake sense?

 

[harrower]

Corvettes can have the same problem. (same fuel system). Add 12 oz of TECHRON CONCENTRATE PLUS to your fuel tank with a full tank of fuel. Buy two bottles and add one more on the next fill up. This will clean the contacts on the sending unit. To maintain, treat fuel every six months. Far easier than replacing the fuel sending unit.

 

[XLR KEN]

Great Advice

Thanks for both ideas.

I haven't put many miles on it since the fillup, therefore I'll check the DIC first thing tomorrow to see how it reset........on the way to buy some fuel additive.

I sure don't want to put out the cash for a new fuel sender.

XLR KEN

 

[Cadillac Tech]

Document ID: 2061828

<FORM name=CellHandlerForm onsubmit="JavaScript: return true;" action=/si/cellHandler.do method=post><HR>
#05-00-89-078B: GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, Fuel Sending Unit Corrosion and Fuel System Deposits - (Feb 6, 2008)

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Subject:</TD><TD vAlign=top>GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, Fuel Sending Unit Corrosion and Fuel System Deposits</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Models:</TD><TD vAlign=top>2008 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (including Saturn)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2008 and Prior HUMMER H2, H3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2005-2008 Saab 9-7X</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<HR>This bulletin is being revised to add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-00-89-078A (Section 00 -- General Information).


<HR>Important : The GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS is not recommended for use with diesel fuel. The GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS is specially formulated for use in gasoline and/or E85 fuels.

<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2061828&from=sm#ss1-2061828">GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS​

GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, P/N 88861011 (for U.S. ACDelco®, use 88861013) (in Canada, 88861012), is now available for use in gasoline engines.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2061828&from=sm#ss2-2061828">Added Benefits and Uses​

The PLUS portion of GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS is the addition of a filmer additive that, when used regularly, can protect fuel system sending units from the corrosive effects of certain sulfur contaminants found in some of today's gasoline.
Sulfur contamination can disrupt electrical continuity of certain fuel sending units and lead to erratic or false fuel gauge readings. With scheduled usage, GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS protects against the effects of harmful sulfurs in gasoline.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2061828&from=sm#ss3-2061828">The Four Benefits ​

Just pour in one bottle of the GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS into the fuel tank when refueling around each oil change interval:​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Cleans -- Sulfur corrosion from fuel gauge sending units.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Prevents -- Harmful sulfur components from attacking sensitive fuel system electronics.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Protects -- By coating metallic surfaces of the fuel system.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Removes -- Engine deposits left from use of poor quality fuels.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

Parts Informationhttp://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2061828&from=sm#ss4-2061828​

<TABLE width="95%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Part Number

​

</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Description

​

</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>88861011 (for U.S. ACDelco, use 88861013)

(in Canada, 88861012)



​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS

​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

</FORM>

 

[Cadillac Tech]

Document ID: 1725099

<FORM name=CellHandlerForm onsubmit="JavaScript: return true;" action=/si/cellHandler.do method=post><HR>
#05-06-04-041A: Erratic Fuel Gauge Readings, Fuel Gauge Reads Empty When There Is Fuel In Tank, DTC P0463 Set, Service Fuel System Message Displayed (Replace Left Fuel Tank Level Sensor) - (Nov 9, 2005)

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Subject:</TD><TD vAlign=top>Erratic Fuel Gauge Readings, Fuel Gauge Reads Empty When There Is Fuel In Tank, DTC P0463 Set, Service Fuel System Message Displayed (Replace Left Fuel Tank Level Sensor)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Models:</TD><TD vAlign=top>2004-2005 Cadillac XLR</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2003 Chevrolet Corvette (Built After December 2002)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>2004-2005 Chevrolet Corvette</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100></TD><TD vAlign=top>Built Prior to December 2004</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=100>Attention: </TD><TD vAlign=top>For the 2003 Chevrolet Corvette, this bulletin only applies to vehicles with the FFS fuel system.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<HR>This bulletin is being revised to correct an add condition within the Warranty Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-06-04-041 (Section 06 -- Engine).


<HR><A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1725099&from=sm#ss1-1725099">Condition

Some customers may comment that the fuel gauge is erratic or reads empty when there is fuel in the tank. Also, the driver information center may display "Service Fuel System."
Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC P0463 set.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1725099&from=sm#ss2-1725099">Cause​

This condition may be due to the following causes:​

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>The sender card has insufficient ink and looses electrical contact when the tank is over filled.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>• </TD><TD vAlign=top>Loose or poor connections at the PCM.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1725099&from=sm#ss3-1725099">Correction​

Check the connections at the PCM/ECM using the proper pin drag test. Use care to select the proper pin for testing. Refer to PCM/ECM Connector End Views in SI in order to identify the correct pin. If all connections check good, then replace the left fuel tank level sensor with P/N 88967316. Refer to the Left Fuel Level Sensor Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls sub-section of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #1398504 [Corvette] or Document ID #976863 [XLR]).
Right fuel tank senders are rarely faulty and should only be replaced if diagnostic information specifically indicates replacement of the right fuel tank sender or a DTC P2068 is present.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1725099&from=sm#ss4-1725099">Parts Information​

<TABLE width="95%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Part Number

​

</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Description

​

</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>88967316

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>Sensor Kit, Fuel Level (LH)

​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Warranty Informationhttp://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=1725099&from=sm#ss5-1725099​

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
<TABLE width="95%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Labor Operation

​

</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Description

​

</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Labor Time

​

</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>L1197*

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>Sensor, Fuel Level (Tank Unit) -- Replace

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>6.0 hrs

​

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>Add

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>Diagnosis Time

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>0.0-0.3 hr

​

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>Add: (2003- 2004 Z06 Corvette and All 2005 Corvette Only)

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>To Remove Brake Cooling Ducts

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>0.2 hr

​

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>Add: (Corvette Only)

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>With Automatic Transmission

​

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>0.3 hr

​

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center colSpan=3>

​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE width="95%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=left width="80%">

​

</TD><TD align=middle width=42></TD><TD align=middle width=167>

​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

</FORM>

 

[XLR KEN]

Bruce,

Thanks for the two technical notices. I think the first one is applicable.

After reviewing all the inputs, I did a test drive and have determined it is a corroded fuel sensor rather than a fully disfunctional sensor. The two gauges do respond, but only in a limited range.

I purchased a couple of TECHRON CONCENTRATE PLUS bottles and will give them a try. I must wait to mix in the first bottle due to just having topped off the tank this morning. It recommends putting it in when the tank is almost empty to allow better mixing.

A review shows that both the DIC and analog gauge correlate as to being 3/4 full tank when topped off. In fact, the DIC slowly went up after refueling but never went above "230 miles to fill", which effectively is equiv to the 3/4 full analog gauge. This proves that the sensor is sending a equivalent signal to both and the analog (stepper motor) gauge is good.

I'll run the two bottles of TECHRON CONCENTRATE PLUS through in the next two fill-ups, then get a bottle of the GM recommended formula as listed in the bulletin if required to give it another bump.

As always, thanks to all for the technical advice.

XLR KEN

 

[XLR KEN]

Bruce,

I contacted my local Cadillac Part Dept and was told the GM FUEL SYSTEM TREATMENT PLUS (p/n 88861011) as listed in the bulletin comes in a 20oz size ($31.46 + tax).

What is the recommended "dosage" for use of this additive?

The over-the-counter stuff comes in at 12oz per dose ($7.99) so the 20oz volume seems extreme................

I don't want to OD on this stuff and possibly scar my engine. Please advise.

XLR KEN

 

[XLR28]

I just got my 05 out of storage (6 months) for a drive from Iowa to Connecticut. The first 2 tank fulls registered fine. The last 2, the tank is full but the gas gauge drifts back to about 2/3rds. It still does its start up checks and goes to empty and then full then settles at the actual level.

I have a 750 mile drive tomorrow, so I will just have to stop more often to make sure I don't run out.

 

[XLR28]

Had the XLR in the shop yesterday and they had to replace the right tank sending unit. Gauge reads correctly now, but the exhaust is louder with a tin like rattling sound. I suspect they had to remove the exhaust system to get the fuel tanks down and did not get everything back together correctly, but I have not had the chance to address the issue with the dealership.

 

[Cadillac Tech]

Yes, the mufflers were removed for the repair.

 

[XLR KEN]

Repair Done

I finally had the Right Fuel Sender replaced last week. It was a horrible experience. We had put it off since I first reporting the problem last fall.

As Bruce mentions, not only did they drop the exhaust, but also the rear-end. It's not an easy fix. Even worse, it took them three attempts to get it right so I'm hoping everything was put back the way it should.

The first attempt had a bad unit out of the box. After replacing it with a good unit, they sent it home with an O-Ring damaged. That caused a leak in the system that dropped pressure in the feed-back line as soon as you turned off the ignition. When you went to start it, the engine would turn over for 5-10 seconds until pressure was built up to get fuel to the engine. They finally found the leak problem and I got it back yesterday in good condition.

As a result of the excessive start-up cycles (long crank time), it strained the OEM battery to the point of needing replaced. It was 5 years old, but I didn't give them the opportunity to sell me a new one. I took my business elsewhere. I still question whether the Tech was really XLR Certified.....

The dealership is in arbitration (fighting being closed by GM), therefore they are really going down quick. Attitudes are bad and service is worse. Even the Sales Dept is whining and complaining. Everyone was very unprofessional. I'm hoping they get put out of their misery soon so that another qualified shop can be set up here in town. I have had nothing but trouble with this dealership, therefore I'm sure they won't survive.

The XLR is now back in the garage and is a "weekender" rather than XLR Ann's daily driver. She had put 60K on it since we got it new. On Saturday, we purschased a new 2010 SRX from a dealership in Nashville (due to poor Sales Dept in Chattanooga). Finally, the XLR is a "lady of leasure" and the new SRX will be the daily driver. Her name is "Goldie" (GoldMist of course) and she's a Performance Package beauty with 20" chrome rims. We are planning a trip to the Smokey Mountains this Valentine's Day weekend to "stretch her legs."

Now we're a two Caddy Family.

XLR KEN

 

[cubby558]

Hey Ken,

Good seeing you on here again. Congrats on the new SRX!!! The Midwest group may get together towards your neck of the woods--either before the Colorado trip or towards the fall. We will surely get in touch with you when we do!! Hope all else is weel with you.

 

[richardyoo]

As I'm on my 2nd XLR-V and I've probably had an XLR in the shop for a total of over 90 days, I can also sympathize.

I've now decided I'll do all the basic stuff at home (wheels, tires, filters) and corvette-similar stuff to the Chevy dealership (fuel sender, transmission, suspension, etc)... and the XLR-specific stuff to the caddy dealer (top, northstar, etc). I think its the only way I can stack the cards in my favor for a positive experience.

I finally had the Right Fuel Sender replaced last week. It was a horrible experience. We had put it off since I first reporting the problem last fall.

As Bruce mentions, not only did they drop the exhaust, but also the rear-end. It's not an easy fix. Even worse, it took them three attempts to get it right so I'm hoping everything was put back the way it should.

The first attempt had a bad unit out of the box. After replacing it with a good unit, they sent it home with an O-Ring damaged. That caused a leak in the system that dropped pressure in the feed-back line as soon as you turned off the ignition. When you went to start it, the engine would turn over for 5-10 seconds until pressure was built up to get fuel to the engine. They finally found the leak problem and I got it back yesterday in good condition.

As a result of the excessive start-up cycles (long crank time), it strained the OEM battery to the point of needing replaced. It was 5 years old, but I didn't give them the opportunity to sell me a new one. I took my business elsewhere. I still question whether the Tech was really XLR Certified.....

The dealership is in arbitration (fighting being closed by GM), therefore they are really going down quick. Attitudes are bad and service is worse. Even the Sales Dept is whining and complaining. Everyone was very unprofessional. I'm hoping they get put out of their misery soon so that another qualified shop can be set up here in town. I have had nothing but trouble with this dealership, therefore I'm sure they won't survive.

The XLR is now back in the garage and is a "weekender" rather than XLR Ann's daily driver. She had put 60K on it since we got it new. On Saturday, we purschased a new 2010 SRX from a dealership in Nashville (due to poor Sales Dept in Chattanooga). Finally, the XLR is a "lady of leasure" and the new SRX will be the daily driver. Her name is "Goldie" (GoldMist of course) and she's a Performance Package beauty with 20" chrome rims. We are planning a trip to the Smokey Mountains this Valentine's Day weekend to "stretch her legs."

Now we're a two Caddy Family.

XLR KEN

 

[XLR KEN]

Hey Ken,

Good seeing you on here again. Congrats on the new SRX!!! The Midwest group may get together towards your neck of the woods--either before the Colorado trip or towards the fall. We will surely get in touch with you when we do!! Hope all else is weel with you.

Cubby,

True, it has been a while since I logged on. The new auto plant here is moving forward and we're ordering the first parts. All this excitement has kept me busy. The Christmas Season was a whole story in itself (details to come under other postings).

I look forward to as many XLR's that can make it to the Chattanooga area. As promised before, I'll arrange an amazing tour of my friends car collection. He would be as excited to see a bunch of XLR's. Believe it or not, his collection makes the Corvette Museum look like a used car lot. Promise. His motorcycle collection alone is as good as the HD Museum.

Keep in touch and let me know of any plan to come close to Chattanooga.

XLR KEN

 

[Crimson Pearl]

GM Fuel System Treatment Plus

Bruce,

I contacted my local Cadillac Part Dept and was told the GM FUEL SYSTEM TREATMENT PLUS (p/n 88861011) as listed in the bulletin comes in a 20oz size ($31.46 + tax).

What is the recommended "dosage" for use of this additive?

The over-the-counter stuff comes in at 12oz per dose ($7.99) so the 20oz volume seems extreme................

I don't want to OD on this stuff and possibly scar my engine. Please advise.

XLR KEN

After reading these posts, I stopped by my local Chevrolet/Cadillac dealer and picked up a bottle of p/n 88861011 Fuel System Treatment Plus. It is a 20 oz. bottle and the label states that 20 oz. treats 20 gallons of gasoline.

As the fuel tank on an XLR is somewhat "smallish" and that I rarely add more than 10 gallons of fuel at the time, I intend to add 10 oz. the next time I add fuel and the second 10 oz. the fill-up after that.

The GM listed price for this product is $26.29, but due to my long standing relationship with this dealership as well as the parts dept. manager, I purchase my parts at "shop discount" and as a result paid only $19.72 for it.

The label recommends the use of this product every 3000 miles, and I will follow this schedule as "cheap insurance".

 

[XLR KEN]

You are wise to take the cautious approach and keep it clean before you have to replace the fuel sender as I did. The tab was over $1,800 due to the extreme labor required. If I knew I could have avoided the corrosion, I would have gladly spent the $27.00 every 3,000 miles.

I'm still wondering if the corrosion is related to fuel now having some % of alcohol in it.

XLR KEN

 

[First Robin]

You are wise to take the cautious approach and keep it clean before you have to replace the fuel sender as I did. The tab was over $1,800 due to the extreme labor required. If I knew I could have avoided the corrosion, I would have gladly spent the $27.00 every 3,000 miles.

I'm still wondering if the corrosion is related to fuel now having some % of alcohol in it.

XLR KEN

I had to have the fuel sender replaced on my 2003 DHS while wintering in Florida due to the high sulfur content in the fuel. Needless to say, Texaco/Shell had to pay out the big bucks to replace it. The DHS was only a few months old at the time and under full warranty but I did not use the warranty since it was the fault of the fuel.

 

[Popbigguy]

I had to have the fuel sender replaced on my 2003 DHS while wintering in Florida due to the high sulfur content in the fuel. Needless to say, Texaco/Shell had to pay out the big bucks to replace it. The DHS was only a few months old at the time and under full warranty but I did not use the warranty since it was the fault of the fuel.

How would you do that?? You must've had every gas sales receipt that went into that car (?)

 

[First Robin]

How would you do that?? You must've had every gas sales receipt that went into that car (?)

I did and from which station I purchased the bad gas. They first tried to say there was no bad gas in Apopka, just Tampa and latter admitted to selling it in Apopka as several other people in Apopka submitted claims. It pays to keep your receipts and good records.