Welcome to the Cadillac XLR Forums!
  • The Cadillac XLR Net is now on instagram! Follow Us!

How can President-elect Barack Obama best help the auto industry?

How can President-elect Barack Obama best help the auto industry?

  • Enable buyers to deduct interest on loans for domestic brand vehicles

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • Increase government loans from $25 billion to $50 billion

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • Impose steep tariffs on imported vehicles

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

Rob

Seasoned Member
Staff member
Site Administrator
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
5,325
Location
New Hampshire
My XLR/V(s)
Not yet!
How can President-elect Barack Obama best help the auto industry?
 
M

mswaim

Guest
Promise a huge bailout; one condition - No More UAW!

Bust it up; make them all re-apply for their jobs with reasonable, livable wages coupled to incentives for production quality and penalties for lack thereof.
 

b_pappy

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
588
Location
Northridge, CA
My XLR/V(s)
2005 XLR
No option for all the above. I dislike stiff tariffs, but it's never been a level playing field exporting a vehicle to Japan either. Yes, the UAW has long outlived its usefulness, and they are part of the problem also. But then I really don't think any pro ball player is worth anywhere near what they earn. I could climb up on my "Buy American, before it's Bye American" soap box, but I'll leave my comments at this for now.
Bruce
 
M

mswaim

Guest
Get no arguement here. I personally think pro atheletes are over-paid a$$wipes in dire need of a wakeup call, but let's face it - Americans love to hero worship, and the crack smoking, wife beating, drunk driving, tax evading, homicidal, score fixing sport heroes fill the bill. :dunno:
 

standby-V

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Mesquite, NV
My XLR/V(s)
2004 Lt. Platinum & 2006 Lt. Platinum XLR-V
Mervyn's out, now Linen and Things is done, many small stores are closing their doors in the malls..............This is going to get really ugly.
I'm stocking up on peanut butter & jelly and beans and hot dogs and a few cases of Chateau La Fete Rothschild 1971 & some good soft cheese.

Get no arguement here. I personally think pro atheletes are over-paid a$$wipes in dire need of a wakeup call, but let's face it - Americans love to hero worship, and the crack smoking, wife beating, drunk driving, tax evading, homicidal, score fixing sport heroes fill the bill. :dunno:
 

PassionDiva5150

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
176
Location
On The Lake, California
My XLR/V(s)
2007 Passion Red XLR
Mervyn's out, now Linen and Things is done, many small stores are closing their doors in the malls..............This is going to get really ugly.
I'm stocking up on peanut butter & jelly and beans and hot dogs and a few cases of Chateau La Fete Rothschild 1971 & some good soft cheese.

I argee, I hate that we are losing all these stores, and you are right, it is only going to get worse :pat::pat::pat:
 

Lola's Mom

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
3,483
Location
Southern CA
My XLR/V(s)
2004 Black Raven
I'm thinking the US can't wait for Obama to help the automotive industry - it absolutlely needs a bail-out now - it is the heart of our country and if it melts down, so goes the USA.
 

First Robin

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
1,393
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
My XLR/V(s)
2006 Platinum/Ebony,2011DTS,Platinum Edition White Diamond.
I didn't find anything in the poll I could vote for. If the gov't bails out the auto industry, it is my understanding we the people will then have part ownership. We as a govenrment now own part of Fannie and Freddie, some banks, AIG and other insurance companies. I believe our elected officials need to read our Constitution as all of this is strictly prohibited. This entire mess goes right back to the Clinton administration when they deregulated the banks and insurance companies. Next they wanted everyone to own their own home regardless of where they were on the pay scale. They gave mortgages out right and left to people that couldn't afford to make the payments. As a result of all their blundering we the people are in tremendous debt to China, Japan, England and only God know who else because our elected ones lie to us all the time. Our country has given away everything we had to all the other countries in the world. How can you be sending aid when you have to borrow the money to do it???? Yes, it is going to get worse, this is only the tip of the iceberg, we are sinking further and further down in world standing, the interest we are paying these other countries is astronomical, we will never be able to climb out of this hole. If all of this doesn't smack of Socialism then I don't know what does. I am tired of slick tongues, money from other countries being shipped in to buy the elections and now the President Elect is going to wave a magic wand and make everything peaches and cream. Guess the peaches and cream will go good with Standby's peanut butter and jelly. Guess I better get off my soap box too.:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash: First Robin:patriot:
 

First Robin

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
1,393
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
My XLR/V(s)
2006 Platinum/Ebony,2011DTS,Platinum Edition White Diamond.
WHO AMERICA OWES

FYI: Japan $585.9 Billion China $541 Billion United Kingdom $307.4 Billion OPEC Natons $179.8 Billion Caribbean banking centers $147.7 Billion. Added up that is $1,466.9 Trillion. OPEC Nations we owe money to include: Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq,, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E. and Venezuela. Caribbean banking centers include: Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Netherlands Antilles, Panama, and British Virgin Islands. Source: U.S. Department of the Treasury/Federal Reserve. For a complete list of U.S. creditors, visit Parade.com/intel Just thought this would give you a better idea of the BLACK HOLE we are in. :squint::squint::squint::squint::squint: First Robin:patriot:
 

Deluxe

Active Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
39
Location
Florida
My XLR/V(s)
Blue '05
Allow them to reorganize themselves more efficiently through bankruptcy. The airlines do it all the time.

A bailout or any thing we do to prop them up will do nothing to force them to improve. Bankruptcy also provides an opportunity to deal with the unions in a realistic way.
 

First Robin

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
1,393
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
My XLR/V(s)
2006 Platinum/Ebony,2011DTS,Platinum Edition White Diamond.
Allow them to reorganize themselves more efficiently through bankruptcy. The airlines do it all the time.

A bailout or any thing we do to prop them up will do nothing to force them to improve. Bankruptcy also provides an opportunity to deal with the unions in a realistic way.

Who are these core employees making $71.00 an hour? Do you realize that amounts to $2,840 per week times 52 weeks equals $147,680.00 per year? Almost as much as a United States Senator makes. WOW, wish I could have had a job like that, maybe I wouldn't have retired when I was 37. So 37 years times $147,680 = $5,464,160.00. The UAW takes pretty good care of hourly core employees at GM!!!!!! Yes, GM does need to re-negotiate wages with the union. Never was a fan of unions, at one time they were needed but are they really needed now? First Robin:patriot:
 

cubby558

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
2,752
Location
IL
My XLR/V(s)
'16 Z06, "06 XLR-V Infra Red-Sold, RII, RIII & RIV survivor, Mdwst Maurader
Allow them to reorganize themselves more efficiently through bankruptcy. The airlines do it all the time.

A bailout or any thing we do to prop them up will do nothing to force them to improve. Bankruptcy also provides an opportunity to deal with the unions in a realistic way.


I agree!!! There is no reason GM needs to be making the same car under the Pontiac, Buick, Chevrolet monikers. They need to consolidate and get the UAW back to reality. As mswaim said, pay them based on performance and quality--maybe then the deadbeats that the UAW protect would be weeded out.
 

Little Woman

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
2,588
Location
Bourbonnais, IL
My XLR/V(s)
Cubby's, RIII Attendee, Midwest Marauder Alcohol Czar
No option for all the above. I dislike stiff tariffs, but it's never been a level playing field exporting a vehicle to Japan either. Yes, the UAW has long outlived its usefulness, and they are part of the problem also. But then I really don't think any pro ball player is worth anywhere near what they earn. I could climb up on my "Buy American, before it's Bye American" soap box, but I'll leave my comments at this for now.
Bruce

I agree with Bruce, but I will get on that Buy American soap box. We need to start supporting the American industry before it is no longer here. It is going to be terrible if US loses our automotive industry.
 

XLR-V Lover

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
536
Location
Florida
My XLR/V(s)
2008 Black XLR-V
That $71.00 per hour is not in their paychecks, it's the total of all benefits. Most are making in the $30.00 per hour range paycheck wise. A decent amount but not really much over the top these days. The union should give back some of the bennies, that's where the auto companies are bleeding profusely. IMHO.

Floyd (BB)
 

cubby558

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
2,752
Location
IL
My XLR/V(s)
'16 Z06, "06 XLR-V Infra Red-Sold, RII, RIII & RIV survivor, Mdwst Maurader
That $71.00 per hour is not in their paychecks, it's the total of all benefits. Most are making in the $30.00 per hour range paycheck wise. A decent amount but not really much over the top these days. The union should give back some of the bennies, that's where the auto companies are bleeding profusely. IMHO.

Floyd (BB)


You are correct Floyd. There is no reason a retired UAW worker should get 95% of what they made working. The auto industry is just like the steel industry--more people retired than working. Not enough people to pay for the luxurious benefits.
 
M

mswaim

Guest
New numbers posted this week show the average cost of a GM line employee was $81.18 in 2006. In February 2008 after their offer to buyout 74,000 employees, that number dropped to $78.21 per hour overall cost.

I agree that number does not represent take home wages - it does reflect Their total benefit package though and its cost to GM. When passed on to the consumer, they estimate it adds $1,600 to the price of each automobile.

In today's world, $30 an hour is a very livable wage for some person who stands on a line plugging in bolts, plugs, screws, etc. The average assembly line job does not require a colllege degree and as such should not pay any more than 25-45% above the minimum wage even in a union environment. The wages paid to UAW members is nothing less than criminal.

Minimum education = minimum wage unless you possess splinter skills others do not have. If that is the case, the free market should dictate your wage.

On the other side is Toyota, whose non-union american employees earn a total of $35 an hour, which calculates out to about $600 per car passed to the consumer - giving Toyota a $1,000 advantage from the gitgo.
 

Lola's Mom

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
3,483
Location
Southern CA
My XLR/V(s)
2004 Black Raven
In today's world, $30 an hour is a very livable wage for some person who stands on a line plugging in bolts, plugs, screws, etc. The average assembly line job does not require a college degree and as such should not pay any more than 25-45% above the minimum wage even in a union environment. The wages paid to UAW members is nothing less than criminal.

Gonna have our first :love: disagreement on this one..... I probably would have agreed with you at one time .... not now. Since we have retired, our health benefits are no longer provided for us (40 years in city & county law enforcement agencies ... you'd think it would, huh?) and the 2009 renewal for an HMO is going to cost us $1,300/mo. Depending on where you live determines your COL .... our retirement program is now worth virtually 50% of what is was 3 years ago.

The majority of people still need a group to advocate for them - You are right - not everyone has a college degree, or an administrative job or knows how to advocate for themselves - the majority of our nation does something similar to "The average assembly line job" - it doesn't take a higher education to do that - but those occupations have real people, with real families who need fair wages to live a decent life. And we need them to do the job. Most of them have have little left over to invest or save - and those of us who have and did - well look, we've lost 28% investing in our own economy ...

I certainly don't have a clue how to solve this crisis that we are in - I just know that people from California are heading east in U-Hauls with children and pets trying to find more affordable homes - but when they are getting there they are finding the same things waiting for them.

You all are right.

We are in a big mess.

I guess we should all pray for a miracle, because I think that is the only thing that will fix this.
 

First Robin

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
1,393
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
My XLR/V(s)
2006 Platinum/Ebony,2011DTS,Platinum Edition White Diamond.
Confidence

Heard on the news earlier this morning that if the auto manufactures file for bankruptcy people won't buy their products because they won't have confidence in them. The airlines file for bankruptcy and people still fly on those airlines so does that make sence? When I was growing up I was taught to believe that we must provide for ourselves, it is not the job of the government to provide for us. If you started out sweeping floors at Caterpillar Tractor Company and you wanted more money then you went back to school and learned more so you could get a promotion. That is how it is supposed to work. My uncle that was a VP of Cat went through an apprentice program and worked his way up the ladder by going to school and getting a better education. When everything is given to everybody by the government then we are truly Socialism which is just about where our country is today. We just had an item on the ballot that unfortunately was voted down that would have eliminated mandatory union membership. My father never required his workmen to belong to the union and he always paid more than union wages but that is when we lived in a free country. First Robin :patriot:
 
M

mswaim

Guest
We will have to agree to disagree. While I see your point, there is no difference between a factory worker in Detroit and a clerk at Walmart. They both work hard, they both should be entitled to a livable wage and a full benefit program........but we both know if that was the case and they were both members of a collective bargaining unit we would no longer be able to afford to shop at walmart either! The bottom line is; the bagaining efforts of the UAW have come home to roost - they now need to reap what they have sowed. :reddevil

We live in a society where we control our own destiny. If we wish a better lot in life we need to make that happen, not hope Obama or someone else will level the playing fields for us.

And believe me, my retirement program is much like yours, so all I can do at this point is keep working! :dunno: my a$$ off until I drop.
 

Lola's Mom

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
3,483
Location
Southern CA
My XLR/V(s)
2004 Black Raven
'Don't think it is specifically an organized union that I think about .... as much as well-led collaboratives. Again -- I am pretty much a fence-sitter on unions .... since my dad was a member of one his entire life - I saw the benefits they provided for us in the 50's and early 60's ..... that was before some union leaders started wearing cement shoes. :squint:

Robin .... if everyone worked their way up, there wouldn't be anyone at the bottom. So ... who would you hire to do those jobs? That's probably where the alien argument could come in to play. Just how much should we pay someone to pick strawberries? Should they make enough to buy insurance, pay rent, raise a family?? Where there is a job opening there is a need for someone to fill it - it isn't always as easy as you make it sound to work your way up. Well, just listen to me ... lol ... you'd think I was a democrat! Or am I?? :rolleyes: :willy_nilly:
 

Cadillac XLR Forums

Not a member?  Join now!  It's Free!

Learn more about Supporting Membership

Win a Cadillac CTS-V!

Cadillac CTS-V Dream Giveaway

Supporting Vendors

East Coast Used XLR Parts

Top Hydraulics

Cadillac XLR Registry

Click here to enter the official Cadillac XLR and XLR-V Registry
Top Bottom